To clone or not to clone? - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-01-2013, 05:05 AM Thread Starter
 
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To clone or not to clone?

My 69 gto was a standard hard top coupe. The PO did a strange restoration too it that caught my eye and got me into Pontiacs. Currently the car is in the shop getting some work done. The owner of the shop offered a in my opinion a very fair deal for paint and decals to make the car a royal bob cat clone. I like the idea but I am unsure about having to say clone everytime someone asks about the car. Anyways you all seem knowledgeable so share some with me on this.
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post #2 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-01-2013, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by maktope View Post
My 69 gto was a standard hard top coupe. The PO did a strange restoration too it that caught my eye and got me into Pontiacs. Currently the car is in the shop getting some work done. The owner of the shop offered a in my opinion a very fair deal for paint and decals to make the car a royal bob cat clone. I like the idea but I am unsure about having to say clone everytime someone asks about the car. Anyways you all seem knowledgeable so share some with me on this.
It's all in what you want. That '65 Royal Bobcat Jim Wangers had and sold was a clone. It's all in what you want.

IMO: My Judge is a re-creation. I did it right though, its no cheap clone. I tore it apart and rebuilt it from the ground up. I had friends who have Judges help me. The graphics were measured and placed precisely as OEM. All parts non Judge were replaced with Judge parts. I used (well my buddy) used many concours pictures paying close attention to detail and the car was reassembled exactly like one. Color matches used. The car was very close except the manifolds were not Ram Air. It drove me berserk, I wanted a 100% match. I finally got them in. The Trans was rebuilt and the valve body specked. The only thing not correct is the block, however there are performance parts added when it was raced, the cam is of R/A standard. The power is virtually identical to my buddy's 1969 Judge. When I pulled the motor I was going to take it RaceKrafters they are local, they are in HPP all the time. I was going to have them re-rebuild the block as close as possible to a YZ. When we opened the engine up it was immaculate, looked new. My buddy built Ponchos and knows these motors, he put a less than 20K mile estimate on the motor. Why spend $$$$$ rebuilding it when it had upgrades and looked spotless?? I decided I will use the money elsewhere. We put the motor back together and reinstalled it. Suspension is not as Judge ...... big deal.
The P14 Palladium is the correct code.

I wanted a Judge in the worst way. Both times I looked... prices for what I wanted were 50kish. Would I use a 50K car as a driver? NO way. I wanted a driver. So..... for 1/2 the cost of what I wanted, I got a PHS GTO tore it apart and built it from the ground up as a Judge. NO ONE can tell the difference. It's a perfect match and in performance.

The 20K I saved? I purchased my wife a matching # 2002 WS.6.

I see clones and shake my head. MOST stop short. They apply graphics and say Judge. I laid out a game plan and built it. I saved a lot doing it, its identical to one and I DRIVE it and enjoy it. For many letting it sit in a garage and dusting it with bragging rights is fine, drive it? NO WAY... I have 100% of the fun at between 1/2-2/3 rd the cost....... I did this knowing what I was doing... took me 4 years in the off seasons but its done right or I'd not have done it.

To Clone or not to Clone..... IMO: if you do it....... do it right. You'll be glad ya did.

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Last edited by GTO JUDGE; 06-01-2013 at 07:30 AM.
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post #3 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-01-2013, 07:24 AM
 
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then call it a tribute... Royals are even more rare than Judges, Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac in Royal Oak, MI did special dealer installed options and tuning packages, you would order your car and have it shipped to them, they would install tuning packages and in your case the stripes and the Royal badge. Royal also did the prep for magazine test cars for Jim Wangers, and were responsible for the infamous 64' 421 tri-power car that masqueraded as a 389 and went up against the Ferrari GTO in the Car and Driver tests. I see nothing wrong with cloning a car as long as you do not represent it as original for show or sale, it will not help the value and could possibly lower it compared to original.

heres an example:
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/news/mu...gto-ram-air-v/
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post #4 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-01-2013, 08:07 AM
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IMO depends on the condition and originality of your car now...honestly a Royal Bobcat was just a supertune and some minor details, not a radical departure from stock or something that couldn't be returned to stock if you decided to sell or just got tired of the look. Even my car could be returned to "stock" although that would require a repaint. I honestly considered painting my car Warwick Blue or Crystal Turquoise but the wife wanted the "Judge" look. I might put the stripes on this year just to change up the look and break up all the orange.



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post #5 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-01-2013, 08:38 AM
 
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lets see some pics of how the car looks now...
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post #6 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-01-2013, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
 
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Engine wise I am there. CI wise. Gotta make up my mind on doing the engine the way royal did. Or what my original plan was. The interior would have to be changed. Currently I have 2006 gto interior installed. I like the look and I know Pontiac guys would know royal. I really do like the idea, and yes it would have to be done right. For some reason its not simple to figure out for me. Thats why I asked. Here are a few pics as requested. I am just confused on what way to go
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post #7 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-01-2013, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
 
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Tribute I like that. The reason I am having the difficulty with this is 1 I am from MI but live in CA. So its always a plus to have a lil bit of home with you. Second there are things I will not change. Because well growing up in MI my whole family worked for GM. I can never prove it ofcourse but its a nice romance to think my Grandfather could have worked on my stearing box at saginaw, or the eaton gears are from my mom and so on. So there is that difficulty
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post #8 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-01-2013, 11:19 AM
 
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I used to work in Berkley just a stones throw from the old Royal building. Nice looking car, as it's far from being original, i would say build what you like and want. The Royal stripes are in your face and either something people love or hate. If it was me i would just get a set of 17" x 9" Bandit rims and low profile rubber, lower it a few inches and go pro-touring as it looks to be done up nice as it is.
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post #9 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-01-2013, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
 
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Here is a short video of it running excuse my friend we put in almost 8 hrs on her that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wReo...e_gdata_player
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post #10 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-01-2013, 02:59 PM
 
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Clones, Tributes, call them what you want, bottom line it is a car pretending to be something that it isn't. As was originally stated, you will be constantly explaining the car. Why not just do the performance upgrades without adding the fake badging? If you do the car right, you don' have any need to make people think that it is something that it isn't. They will look at your car for the build quality. JMHO

1966 TriPower, 4 spd, PHS documented.
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