Well, even at that number, it's going to be dynoing in the 360-370 range. So that already more power to the wheels than the GTO. Not too mention it's powerband is going to be MUCH wider. Then there's the weight advantage. An S197 GT weighs some 250~lbs less than the Goat. Those factors combined would require a heavy-bolton LS2 GTO at the least...
Wrong!!!!!! Again!!!!!!
Send me your address so I can mail you a dollar. You really need to buy a clue.
The S197 Mustang GT is 3550 lbs. The supercharger adds a minimum of 100lbs to the car. That makes it 3650 lbs. The GTO is 3725lbs. That makes the difference 175 lbs from a stock GT to a GTO and 75 lbs for a supercharged GT to a GTO. Man if you can't get these details correct, what else are you off on.
The Roush Mustang stage 3 supercharged is 410 or 415 hp the next step up is the 427. I raced a 427 last week with my LT4 Vette. The guy was running 13.3. My LT4 was running about a half a tenth faster. I'd say a GTO would be about a tenth faster than my LT4 was, maybe a tenth and a half. The guy was a better than average driver too, he was cutting high 1.9's in the 60' area and was within a tenth on the tree. That's not a poorly driven car.
I've also seen road tests of the Saleen and Roush cars and in one that Car & Driver did, they compared the car to the GTO and it was a slight advantage to the GTO, but they didn't test the cars back to back so call it a drivers race.
The Ford factory supercharger isn't as agressive as the Roush and Saleen cars are. It can be modified to be more aggressive, but it isn't out of the box. If the Ford factory car is stock from the dealer trim he's going to get beat by a stock GTO.
W/ great driving, the GT500 has run low 12's. Mid 12's is the norm, though, and figure a few extra tenths for a 'Vert. But from a roll, he would've walked you.
W/ 360 to the wheels, no way would he have 'killed' him. He may be a mid 12 sec car, but his HP deficit would put him at a disadvantage from a roll. He would've no doubt gave him a good run, and depending on drivng skill, maybe won, but it by no means have been a blowout.
Not to flame, but a stock GTO is not beating ANY supercharged S197 GT w/ equal driver's. Even the most modest kits put them in the 430rwhp ballpark..
Again no clue what your talking about. You need to stick to the Nissan forum.
The GT500 is between a 12.8 and 13.1 according to the road tests. The ones I've seen at the track that are stock aren't breaking into the 12's. Sorry that's the real world.
The vert GT500 is over 100 lbs heavier and they are slower by a tenth or 2 so you got that right.
By guessing LT Chappa's car was a 12.5 car I was really selling him short. The C5 Z06 runs low 12's stock and can even get into the 11's with 360-370 rwhp. I was adding a tenth for weight and a tenth for tires, the Z06 doesn't have runflats, and another tenth for good measure. That puts his car, using 12.5, faster than the vert GT500 by .4 to .7 tenths. Also a C5 Vette with that kind of HP is trapping 117-118. The GT500 traps 112-114. The base C6 beats the GT500 pretty easily, and the LS2 doesn't put 360hp to the ground stock. It would be a cake walk, kinda like a GTO beating up on a stock S197 Mustang GT an easy half second advantage to the GM car in either case.
You need to get out into the real world and watch what cars actually do at the track. It will surprise you.
Most people that add a supercharger to a Mustang are going to enhance other areas of the car. With that said, a modified Mustang with a supercharger will usually beat a stock GTO. But what NJ Goat is talking about, from the description of the car, is a Ford dealer installed supercharger from the Ford Racing catalog. The tune use and the level of the boost is set low enough that the car still carries it's stock warranty. It's a very mild set-up that isn't nearly as aggressive as a Saleen or Roush. The GTO will beat it.
As far as your estimate that ANY supercharged S197 puts 430 hp to the wheels, look at the Roush. It puts well let the video do the talking. VIDEO review of ROUSH 427R Mustang » Propeller
Send me your address so I can mail you a dollar. You really need to buy a clue.
The S197 Mustang GT is 3550 lbs. The supercharger adds a minimum of 100lbs to the car. That makes it 3650 lbs. The GTO is 3725lbs. That makes the difference 175 lbs from a stock GT to a GTO and 75 lbs for a supercharged GT to a GTO. Man if you can't get these details correct, what else are you off on.
The Roush Mustang stage 3 supercharged is 410 or 415 hp the next step up is the 427. I raced a 427 last week with my LT4 Vette. The guy was running 13.3. My LT4 was running about a half a tenth faster. I'd say a GTO would be about a tenth faster than my LT4 was, maybe a tenth and a half. The guy was a better than average driver too, he was cutting high 1.9's in the 60' area and was within a tenth on the tree. That's not a poorly driven car.
I've also seen road tests of the Saleen and Roush cars and in one that Car & Driver did, they compared the car to the GTO and it was a slight advantage to the GTO, but they didn't test the cars back to back so call it a drivers race.
The Ford factory supercharger isn't as agressive as the Roush and Saleen cars are. It can be modified to be more aggressive, but it isn't out of the box. If the Ford factory car is stock from the dealer trim he's going to get beat by a stock GTO.
Okay Fergy,
So the Mustang GT with the black stripes over white paint with a dealer installed supercharger should "not" be too much of a problem with my slightly modified GTO? I thought I googled this before and found that a new Mustang GT with "dealership" installed supercharger should be puttin' out like I mentioned before 417 HP.
Send me your address so I can mail you a dollar. You really need to buy a clue.
The S197 Mustang GT is 3550 lbs. The supercharger adds a minimum of 100lbs to the car. That makes it 3650 lbs. The GTO is 3725lbs. That makes the difference 175 lbs from a stock GT to a GTO and 75 lbs for a supercharged GT to a GTO. Man if you can't get these details correct, what else are you off on.
The Roush Mustang stage 3 supercharged is 410 or 415 hp the next step up is the 427. I raced a 427 last week with my LT4 Vette. The guy was running 13.3. My LT4 was running about a half a tenth faster. I'd say a GTO would be about a tenth faster than my LT4 was, maybe a tenth and a half. The guy was a better than average driver too, he was cutting high 1.9's in the 60' area and was within a tenth on the tree. That's not a poorly driven car.
I've also seen road tests of the Saleen and Roush cars and in one that Car & Driver did, they compared the car to the GTO and it was a slight advantage to the GTO, but they didn't test the cars back to back so call it a drivers race.
The Ford factory supercharger isn't as agressive as the Roush and Saleen cars are. It can be modified to be more aggressive, but it isn't out of the box. If the Ford factory car is stock from the dealer trim he's going to get beat by a stock GTO.
Nope, YOU are wrong, AGAIN-
The I only weight listing I found for an S197 GT was 3,523, but we won't quiblle over it. So let's just say the GT has a 200lb weight advantage. A supercharger kit does NOT add 100lbs to the car. More like 50lbs. So the Mustang would still have a 150~ pound advantage. I mistakenly put whp instead of crank hp earlier, and that's what I meant. The most conservative supercharger setups for the S197 put them around 415hp w/ a very mild tune, and no other supporting mods. If you don't think a 415hp S197 will light an LS2 GTO up, you're crazy. Not only will it have a horsepower advantage, it's torque curve (what REALLY matters) would put the GTO's to shame. Factor in how much better the Mustang launches w/ it's solid-axle rear, and it's game over for the Goat, unless terrible driving skills come into play.
And you're also wrong about the Roush. Not that that's surprising. The Roush 427R has been tested out of the box to 12.30's, enough to blow your piddly Vette and an LS2 GTO both out of the water. 13.30's w/ that car is awful. 100% stock to the tire S197 GT's have gone 13.30's. That guy either sucked at driving, or his time was subject to some terrible track conditions. But considering he only beat your car by less than a .1, he must have sucked.
And again, even a GT w/ the 415~hp dealer installed blower kit is going to put a GTO down. Lighter weight, better suspension for launching, and a much better power curve. To think otherwise is just denial. But then again, you leg humping GM guys seem to take that pretty well.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by fergyflyer
Again no clue what your talking about. You need to stick to the Nissan forum.
The GT500 is between a 12.8 and 13.1 according to the road tests. The ones I've seen at the track that are stock aren't breaking into the 12's. Sorry that's the real world.
The vert GT500 is over 100 lbs heavier and they are slower by a tenth or 2 so you got that right.
By guessing LT Chappa's car was a 12.5 car I was really selling him short. The C5 Z06 runs low 12's stock and can even get into the 11's with 360-370 rwhp. I was adding a tenth for weight and a tenth for tires, the Z06 doesn't have runflats, and another tenth for good measure. That puts his car, using 12.5, faster than the vert GT500 by .4 to .7 tenths. Also a C5 Vette with that kind of HP is trapping 117-118. The GT500 traps 112-114. The base C6 beats the GT500 pretty easily, and the LS2 doesn't put 360hp to the ground stock. It would be a cake walk, kinda like a GTO beating up on a stock S197 Mustang GT an easy half second advantage to the GM car in either case.
You need to get out into the real world and watch what cars actually do at the track. It will surprise you.
Most people that add a supercharger to a Mustang are going to enhance other areas of the car. With that said, a modified Mustang with a supercharger will usually beat a stock GTO. But what NJ Goat is talking about, from the description of the car, is a Ford dealer installed supercharger from the Ford Racing catalog. The tune use and the level of the boost is set low enough that the car still carries it's stock warranty. It's a very mild set-up that isn't nearly as aggressive as a Saleen or Roush. The GTO will beat it.
As far as your estimate that ANY supercharged S197 puts 430 hp to the wheels, look at the Roush. It puts well let the video do the talking. VIDEO review of ROUSH 427R Mustang » Propeller
I should stick to the Nissan forums??? Really??? Because I own a Nissan right??? Oh, wait, no I don't, that was just another lame-ass attempt to get off a pop-shot insult in true Fergy fashion. Maybe you should stick to the Corvette forums seeing as in how it's the greatest advent of the automotive world, and how their owners seem to have the same stuck up mentality as you.
Oh, and since you just love magazine racing so much, allow me to enlighten you-
Yeah, so much for those 12.8- 13.1 road tests. And in another test, a completely stock one went 12.257 at 117.180 mph. The ones you see are being piloted br some nad drivers apparently.
Secondly, LT's car is nowhere near faster than a GT500 Vert by .7 secs. Stock C5 Z06's are low 12's on average. His car has the added hindrance of being a Vert, having crappier tires, and most importantly, worse gearing. So he MIGHT be a 12.50-12.60 car. Maybe. If he's a good driver. Factor in a few extra tenths for the GT500 being a Vert, and if he's a good driver, 12.60's should be entirely possible. So equal drivers, the two cars times would be a toss up. By no means a .4-.7 advantage for LT's Vette like you suggest. Furhtermore, on a highway roll, the GT500's weight is going to be less of an issue, and it's horsepower advantage will give it the edge.
You wanna talk about me not knowing what I'm talking about, maybe you shold re-evalute your own standings first. You fudge the results by using stats and figures that are biased, and support your claims, which are also biased. And you're doing it solely for the fact that his car is a Corvette. If the cars being discussed had identical numbers, but only differed in car, let's say a GT500 vs modded 350Z (since you love to hate them so much), you'd be all for the GT500, taking it's side, and laying it's praise. As w/ every pissing match you and I get into, it's because you've let your own bias get in the way of making sound decisions based on supported logic and facts.
So maybe you should keep that aforementioned dollar......
The I only weight listing I found for an S197 GT was 3,523, but we won't quiblle over it. So let's just say the GT has a 200lb weight advantage. A supercharger kit does NOT add 100lbs to the car. More like 50lbs. So the Mustang would still have a 150~ pound advantage. I mistakenly put whp instead of crank hp earlier, and that's what I meant. The most conservative supercharger setups for the S197 put them around 415hp w/ a very mild tune, and no other supporting mods. If you don't think a 415hp S197 will light an LS2 GTO up, you're crazy. Not only will it have a horsepower advantage, it's torque curve (what REALLY matters) would put the GTO's to shame. Factor in how much better the Mustang launches w/ it's solid-axle rear, and it's game over for the Goat, unless terrible driving skills come into play.
And you're also wrong about the Roush. Not that that's surprising. The Roush 427R has been tested out of the box to 12.30's, enough to blow your piddly Vette and an LS2 GTO both out of the water. 13.30's w/ that car is awful. 100% stock to the tire S197 GT's have gone 13.30's. That guy either sucked at driving, or his time was subject to some terrible track conditions. But considering he only beat your car by less than a .1, he must have sucked.
And again, even a GT w/ the 415~hp dealer installed blower kit is going to put a GTO down. Lighter weight, better suspension for launching, and a much better power curve. To think otherwise is just denial. But then again, you leg humping GM guys seem to take that pretty well.....
I should stick to the Nissan forums??? Really??? Because I own a Nissan right??? Oh, wait, no I don't, that was just another lame-ass attempt to get off a pop-shot insult in true Fergy fashion. Maybe you should stick to the Corvette forums seeing as in how it's the greatest advent of the automotive world, and how their owners seem to have the same stuck up mentality as you.
Oh, and since you just love magazine racing so much, allow me to enlighten you-
Yeah, so much for those 12.8- 13.1 road tests. And in another test, a completely stock one went 12.257 at 117.180 mph. The ones you see are being piloted br some nad drivers apparently.
Secondly, LT's car is nowhere near faster than a GT500 Vert by .7 secs. Stock C5 Z06's are low 12's on average. His car has the added hindrance of being a Vert, having crappier tires, and most importantly, worse gearing. So he MIGHT be a 12.50-12.60 car. Maybe. If he's a good driver. Factor in a few extra tenths for the GT500 being a Vert, and if he's a good driver, 12.60's should be entirely possible. So equal drivers, the two cars times would be a toss up. By no means a .4-.7 advantage for LT's Vette like you suggest. Furhtermore, on a highway roll, the GT500's weight is going to be less of an issue, and it's horsepower advantage will give it the edge.
You wanna talk about me not knowing what I'm talking about, maybe you shold re-evalute your own standings first. You fudge the results by using stats and figures that are biased, and support your claims, which are also biased. And you're doing it solely for the fact that his car is a Corvette. If the cars being discussed had identical numbers, but only differed in car, let's say a GT500 vs modded 350Z (since you love to hate them so much), you'd be all for the GT500, taking it's side, and laying it's praise. As w/ every pissing match you and I get into, it's because you've let your own bias get in the way of making sound decisions based on supported logic and facts.
So maybe you should keep that aforementioned dollar......
You're starting to sound like a troll with some of the comments I have in bold red lettering. If you have facts to post then that's cool but bashing the GTO really isn't necessary. For your information there are stock GTO's (05 & 06) that have run in the 12's. If you don't want to believe that then cool... it's your choice, but it is true. And don't just look at hp/tq numbers. What about gearing? Don't you think that has anything to do with speed? What about aerodynamics? Don't focus so much on hp/tq numbers. Also don't think that I'm giving you a hard time because personally, you've always been okay in my book but you need to look at the cars being discussed as a whole. If you have a dyno sheet of a S197 GT please post it so I can see the hp/tq curve. It's best to see those types of claims rather than hear 'em. I'd admit that I don't know much about the S197 but one thing I will tell you is if it has the roots type supercharger it weighs more than 50 lbs. Don't forget to add the weight of the heat exchanger and plumbing too. I know my Maggie is a different supercharger than the one on the S197 but it is way heavier than 50 lbs.
The I only weight listing I found for an S197 GT was 3,523, but we won't quiblle over it. So let's just say the GT has a 200lb weight advantage. A supercharger kit does NOT add 100lbs to the car. More like 50lbs. So the Mustang would still have a 150~ pound advantage. I mistakenly put whp instead of crank hp earlier, and that's what I meant. The most conservative supercharger setups for the S197 put them around 415hp w/ a very mild tune, and no other supporting mods. If you don't think a 415hp S197 will light an LS2 GTO up, you're crazy. Not only will it have a horsepower advantage, it's torque curve (what REALLY matters) would put the GTO's to shame. Factor in how much better the Mustang launches w/ it's solid-axle rear, and it's game over for the Goat, unless terrible driving skills come into play.
And you're also wrong about the Roush. Not that that's surprising. The Roush 427R has been tested out of the box to 12.30's, enough to blow your piddly Vette and an LS2 GTO both out of the water. 13.30's w/ that car is awful. 100% stock to the tire S197 GT's have gone 13.30's. That guy either sucked at driving, or his time was subject to some terrible track conditions. But considering he only beat your car by less than a .1, he must have sucked.
And again, even a GT w/ the 415~hp dealer installed blower kit is going to put a GTO down. Lighter weight, better suspension for launching, and a much better power curve. To think otherwise is just denial. But then again, you leg humping GM guys seem to take that pretty well.....
I should stick to the Nissan forums??? Really??? Because I own a Nissan right??? Oh, wait, no I don't, that was just another lame-ass attempt to get off a pop-shot insult in true Fergy fashion. Maybe you should stick to the Corvette forums seeing as in how it's the greatest advent of the automotive world, and how their owners seem to have the same stuck up mentality as you.
Oh, and since you just love magazine racing so much, allow me to enlighten you-
Yeah, so much for those 12.8- 13.1 road tests. And in another test, a completely stock one went 12.257 at 117.180 mph. The ones you see are being piloted br some nad drivers apparently.
Secondly, LT's car is nowhere near faster than a GT500 Vert by .7 secs. Stock C5 Z06's are low 12's on average. His car has the added hindrance of being a Vert, having crappier tires, and most importantly, worse gearing. So he MIGHT be a 12.50-12.60 car. Maybe. If he's a good driver. Factor in a few extra tenths for the GT500 being a Vert, and if he's a good driver, 12.60's should be entirely possible. So equal drivers, the two cars times would be a toss up. By no means a .4-.7 advantage for LT's Vette like you suggest. Furhtermore, on a highway roll, the GT500's weight is going to be less of an issue, and it's horsepower advantage will give it the edge.
You wanna talk about me not knowing what I'm talking about, maybe you shold re-evalute your own standings first. You fudge the results by using stats and figures that are biased, and support your claims, which are also biased. And you're doing it solely for the fact that his car is a Corvette. If the cars being discussed had identical numbers, but only differed in car, let's say a GT500 vs modded 350Z (since you love to hate them so much), you'd be all for the GT500, taking it's side, and laying it's praise. As w/ every pissing match you and I get into, it's because you've let your own bias get in the way of making sound decisions based on supported logic and facts.
So maybe you should keep that aforementioned dollar......
Again, you need to get out into the real world. ForensicSteve gets to the track and the BEST he has seen is 12.5 from a GT500. You need to understand, that just because MM&FF's hot shoe takes a GT500 and ices down the intake and spends time prepping the track to the exact situation that he wants, doesn't reflect the real world. I've seen several 427R's that ran low to mid 13's. Have you ever been to the track and actually watched cars run on a regular basis. I'm there 2-3 times a month now and was for the better part of the last decade through 2004, at the track twice a week.
I've gotten my GTO to run in the 12's and regularly ran low 13's. I got my C5 Z06 to run 11.501 at 118 mph. I got my LT4 Vette real close to the 12's. I'm also pretty good at watching cars and being able to tell who's good and who's not. From experience. When I tell you the guy driving the Roush I raced was good, you need to either take my word for it or come up with something other than I saw this video or read that magazine to discredit real life experience.
For the Mustang's weight, I've seen 3367, 3531, 3532, 3550, 3555, 3583. I ignored the 3367, the others are all fairly close and that seems more like the weight I've seen for the V6 model. I figured 3350 is right in the middle and selected it. I looked at Voretechs website. I found superchargers listed for 50-80 lbs and I guessed at the weight of the intercooler and plumbing. I then looked at curb weights on supercharged Saleens and Roush cars, nothing was under 3650. I used 100lbs as a safe guess.
I know what the cars are rated at, like was mentioned, you need to look at the power curve of the engines and the gearing, but really that is just bench racing. When the rubber hits the dragstrip anything can happen. And it does, the 427R runs low 13's. That's what Car & Driver got and they even mentioned that now the Mustang can keep up with the GTO.
The Nissan comment was because you are always talking about them. I know you own an A4. I'm back to owning a Cavalier for now. Looks like the snob factor is headed your way. Hey that might be a good race, my Cav versus your A4. That's right you don't head to the track. There another pop-shot. You just make it too easy.
Actually the LT4 beat the Roush, 3 times too, but he did miss a shift on one of the passes. Yeah I know poor quality driver missing a shift. Yada Yada Yada. He cut a less than 2.0 60' and had a reaction time below .100 everytime. Of course your the guy that never gets to the track and could do much better. There I pop-shotted again.
Leg humping GM guys. Well that's the nicest thing you've said about me. Thanks. Does that qualify as a pop-shot??? I'm trying to reach my quota of Fergy pop-shots and it's pretty high today.
Neither you or I know what LTChappa's car will run. I'm guessing 12.5 with his mods. Again, the GT500 might have gotten to 12.257, but that took several tries and several cars by Evan Smith. He's the Mustang Hot shoe, like Ranger is the Corvette Hot shoe. Ranger has hit 11.1 in a stock C6 Z06. So you understand what stock is, I'm talking no DR's, paper air filters, just the way it came from the factory. Would I ever quote the Z06 as being an 11.1 car, nope, 11.5- 11.7 is what the factory and most magazines get. That's the real number, just like 12.8-13.1 is the real number for the GT500. Add 1-2 tenths for the extra weight of the vert and you have a 4-7 tenths victory to LTChappa. Every time. You go ahead and keep taking the worst numbers for the GM products, and the best numbers for anything else. I'll stick to my real world numbers.
You think I'm biased to the Vette, well your off again. I'm the guy that tried to get a guy that had a stock C5 to run my 05 GTO to show him the GTO was faster than a stock C5. I'm the first guy on the Vette forum to tell C5 guys they aren't going to be beating an 03-04 Mustang Cobra without some mods. I criticized the seats, the heat that transfers into the cockpit and made the comment more than a couple times that the GTO was much better on a trip. When things aren't in the Vette, or the GTO's favor I'll point it out and use facts to back it up.
A modded 350Z beating a stock GT500. I wouldn't touch that one. I'm not sure what mods you would need and what type of performance a 350Z has with what mods. I do know a bit about stock Mustangs and modded ones since I owned some and a Contour SVT and was active up till 2004 with SVTOA. I usually tend to side with a modded turbo Supra being extremely fast to the point it's silly. All you seem interested in is pissing on GM and GTO's and Vette's.
You never post anything that is remotely positive about the car this forum is dedicated to. You think S197 Mustangs are 13.3 cars and begrudge saying the GTO is a 13.1-13.2 car. Meanwhile the best GTO stock is, I think 12.7 or definately 12.8, and most Mustangs run 13.8. Let's get real, your on a GTO forum. If you hate the car go away.
Last edited by fergyflyer : 04-17-2008 at 05:27 PM.
And you're also wrong about the Roush. Not that that's surprising. The Roush 427R has been tested out of the box to 12.30's, enough to blow your piddly Vette and an LS2 GTO both out of the water. 13.30's w/ that car is awful. 100% stock to the tire S197 GT's have gone 13.30's. That guy either sucked at driving, or his time was subject to some terrible track conditions. But considering he only beat your car by less than a .1, he must have sucked.
I stopped in to see one of my tech teachers and he had purchased a 2007 ford mustang stage 3 427R brand new, he paid $55,000. They gave hive a dvd on the car that show how that were built from just a regular Mustang GT from roush, anyway they took the car to the track towards the end of the video and they ran it 3 times, the best time they managed was a 13.30, also a stock S197 GT running 13.30s is extremly rare(but heard it has been done by very few, I still don't believe it) Just my input, I'm not taking sides with anyone
What the hell is up? I just asked what kind of times could a Shelby run? My Vette is all show with a little go.I know that stang had the snake on the front grill and Shelby just below the rear Lft tailight. Those cars have 500 hp and I thought I would get my doors blown off. I happen to like all performance cars and get lots of compliments on my Vette, so when this fool gave a thumbs down to me I just backed off. In no way,shape or form could a mustang be in the same class as a Vette just because they can excellerate fast.
You're starting to sound like a troll with some of the comments I have in bold red lettering. If you have facts to post then that's cool but bashing the GTO really isn't necessary. For your information there are stock GTO's (05 & 06) that have run in the 12's. If you don't want to believe that then cool... it's your choice, but it is true. And don't just look at hp/tq numbers. What about gearing? Don't you think that has anything to do with speed? What about aerodynamics? Don't focus so much on hp/tq numbers. Also don't think that I'm giving you a hard time because personally, you've always been okay in my book but you need to look at the cars being discussed as a whole. If you have a dyno sheet of a S197 GT please post it so I can see the hp/tq curve. It's best to see those types of claims rather than hear 'em. I'd admit that I don't know much about the S197 but one thing I will tell you is if it has the roots type supercharger it weighs more than 50 lbs. Don't forget to add the weight of the heat exchanger and plumbing too. I know my Maggie is a different supercharger than the one on the S197 but it is way heavier than 50 lbs.
I'm not here to troll, man. And all of the above bolded comments were directed towards Fergy, and not the forum members or GTO owners as a whole. My apology if it came off as such. I love GM, but I'm not a nutswinger, and am open to all makes and models.
And I am well aware of what the LS2 GTO's are capable of. I know they're capable of 12.80's stock, as well as their potential w/ boltons. A coworker of mine had a modded '06, and I've driven the car numerous times, as well as raced it numerous times. I am by no means syaing they are slow cars. Far from it. But I've also ridden in a Whippled GT, and there was no comparison. The GT was instantaneous power, all the way to redline. It never let up, or ramped up. Just steady pull. From any rpm, in any gear. Such was not the case w/ the GTO. They're torquey motors no doubt, and the LSX series has always been known for their lethality in the triple digits, but when being compared to a twin-screwed car, it's bound to be at a disadvantage. It's ot necessarily a bad thing, just fact. A fact that Fergy seems hell bent on denying.
I'm more than familar w/ what matters in terms of horsepower/torque, and that is precisely my reasoning behind saying a supercharged GT is gonna beat an LS2 GTO 9 out of 10 times. And I'll try dog up a dyno sheet or two for your viewing pleasure....
Quote:
Originally Posted by fergyflyer
Again, you need to get out into the real world. ForensicSteve gets to the track and the BEST he has seen is 12.5 from a GT500. You need to understand, that just because MM&FF's hot shoe takes a GT500 and ices down the intake and spends time prepping the track to the exact situation that he wants, doesn't reflect the real world. I've seen several 427R's that ran low to mid 13's. Have you ever been to the track and actually watched cars run on a regular basis. I'm there 2-3 times a month now and was for the better part of the last decade through 2004, at the track twice a week.
I've gotten my GTO to run in the 12's and regularly ran low 13's. I got my C5 Z06 to run 11.501 at 118 mph. I got my LT4 Vette real close to the 12's. I'm also pretty good at watching cars and being able to tell who's good and who's not. From experience. When I tell you the guy driving the Roush I raced was good, you need to either take my word for it or come up with something other than I saw this video or read that magazine to discredit real life experience.
For the Mustang's weight, I've seen 3367, 3531, 3532, 3550, 3555, 3583. I ignored the 3367, the others are all fairly close and that seems more like the weight I've seen for the V6 model. I figured 3350 is right in the middle and selected it. I looked at Voretechs website. I found superchargers listed for 50-80 lbs and I guessed at the weight of the intercooler and plumbing. I then looked at curb weights on supercharged Saleens and Roush cars, nothing was under 3650. I used 100lbs as a safe guess.
I know what the cars are rated at, like was mentioned, you need to look at the power curve of the engines and the gearing, but really that is just bench racing. When the rubber hits the dragstrip anything can happen. And it does, the 427R runs low 13's. That's what Car & Driver got and they even mentioned that now the Mustang can keep up with the GTO.
The Nissan comment was because you are always talking about them. I know you own an A4. I'm back to owning a Cavalier for now. Looks like the snob factor is headed your way. Hey that might be a good race, my Cav versus your A4. That's right you don't head to the track. There another pop-shot. You just make it too easy.
Actually the LT4 beat the Roush, 3 times too, but he did miss a shift on one of the passes. Yeah I know poor quality driver missing a shift. Yada Yada Yada. He cut a less than 2.0 60' and had a reaction time below .100 everytime. Of course your the guy that never gets to the track and could do much better. There I pop-shotted again.
Leg humping GM guys. Well that's the nicest thing you've said about me. Thanks. Does that qualify as a pop-shot??? I'm trying to reach my quota of Fergy pop-shots and it's pretty high today.
Neither you or I know what LTChappa's car will run. I'm guessing 12.5 with his mods. Again, the GT500 might have gotten to 12.257, but that took several tries and several cars by Evan Smith. He's the Mustang Hot shoe, like Ranger is the Corvette Hot shoe. Ranger has hit 11.1 in a stock C6 Z06. So you understand what stock is, I'm talking no DR's, paper air filters, just the way it came from the factory. Would I ever quote the Z06 as being an 11.1 car, nope, 11.5- 11.7 is what the factory and most magazines get. That's the real number, just like 12.8-13.1 is the real number for the GT500. Add 1-2 tenths for the extra weight of the vert and you have a 4-7 tenths victory to LTChappa. Every time. You go ahead and keep taking the worst numbers for the GM products, and the best numbers for anything else. I'll stick to my real world numbers.
You think I'm biased to the Vette, well your off again. I'm the guy that tried to get a guy that had a stock C5 to run my 05 GTO to show him the GTO was faster than a stock C5. I'm the first guy on the Vette forum to tell C5 guys they aren't going to be beating an 03-04 Mustang Cobra without some mods. I criticized the seats, the heat that transfers into the cockpit and made the comment more than a couple times that the GTO was much better on a trip. When things aren't in the Vette, or the GTO's favor I'll point it out and use facts to back it up.
A modded 350Z beating a stock GT500. I wouldn't touch that one. I'm not sure what mods you would need and what type of performance a 350Z has with what mods. I do know a bit about stock Mustangs and modded ones since I owned some and a Contour SVT and was active up till 2004 with SVTOA. I usually tend to side with a modded turbo Supra being extremely fast to the point it's silly. All you seem interested in is pissing on GM and GTO's and Vette's.
You never post anything that is remotely positive about the car this forum is dedicated to. You think S197 Mustangs are 13.3 cars and begrudge saying the GTO is a 13.1-13.2 car. Meanwhile the best GTO stock is, I think 12.7 or definately 12.8, and most Mustangs run 13.8. Let's get real, your on a GTO forum. If you hate the car go away.
The real world. I keep hearing that from you. Real world this, real world that. You mean the real world where everything not made by the General runs .5-1 second slower than it's capable of??? That real world???? Get over yourself. You're misconstruing info and giving one sided reasoning for own benefit, and you know it. I wholeheartedly acknowledge that not every GT500 owner can duplicate a 12.20 run. But I assure you they are not all 13 sec cars like you seem to think. Ditto the Roush 427R. Stock S197's average 13.70's. Do you REALLY mean to tell me that w/ an extra 135hp it's only .4 quicker??? Yeah, sure. A GT500 Vert running a 12.60 is no more farfetched than a 360rwhp C5 Vert running the same. 360 is about wat stock C5 Z's dyno, and they're low 12's if well driven. Factor in the extra weight, worse gearing, and traction, as already mentioned, and that quickly adds up to .3-.5 sec deficit. And as already said, from a roll, that horsepower deficit in the GT500's favor is gonna come much more into play than the Cobra's weight.
I'm a snob because I own an Audi A4, lol???? Okay. ownership of their next to lowest model requires a high-grade Euro snob, huh??? I'm far from the GM bashing hater you make me out to be. I've owned several, will own more in the future, and have no problem w/ their products whatsoever. I've said numerous times how good of a car the GTO is, and backed it up in MANY a qualls over at mustangforums.com. I love the GTO. I would take a GTO over an new GT w/out hesitation. Even an LS1 GTO. They are great cars. Most GMs are. They are NOT however justification to stick your head so far up your ass that you are blind to anything but such. I assure you, I am by NO means a Mustang fan, I state my case against it all the time, but it's nothing personal there either. I'm a realist. Simple as that. Drop the ignorant, arrogant attitude and the everytning-but-GM-sucks mentality, and I'll stop calling people out. Don't you find it the least bit odd that the ONE person I always get into it w/ DOESN'T EVEN OWN A GTO!?!?! How many times have I gotten into it w/ a GTO owner here??? How many of them have a problem w/ me?? Yeah, that's what I thought. So much for your GTO hating theory wise guy. I have NO problem w/ the GTO or it's owners whatsoever. What I DO have a problem w/ is guys like you, who at every available opportunity, swing from those gold-plated General nuts, and will know no bounds in the process. Whether it means trying to pass lame one-sided opinion off as fact, bashing any and all things w/ out that bowtie or dart, or making a complete fool of yourself throwing out fallacies and nonsensical reasoning.
Congratulations dude, you hands down win the biggest fanboy on this site award, and you don't even own the car it's dedicated to.....
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