The real world. I keep hearing that from you. Real world this, real world that. You mean the real world where everything not made by the General runs .5-1 second slower than it's capable of??? That real world???? Get over yourself. You're misconstruing info and giving one sided reasoning for own benefit, and you know it.
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I decided to ignore you, but there is a comment you made that I can't.
I could easily post that the C6 Z06 is a 10 second car. There are those that have gotten Z06's into the tens with the paper air filter and the stock street tires. I call it a 11.5-11.7 car.
I could easily post that the C5 Z06 runs 11.8 stock, runs have been made and verified, but I don't, it's a 12.3 second car.
When I quote the GTO, I quote the proven test results which show 13.1 in the 1/4.
When I quote S197 Mustang GT's I quote the 13.8 that most magazines get. Sure guys have gone faster. Some have gone slower too.
When I quote the GT500 it's a 12.8-13.1 that the magazines have gotten, will they run 12.4, well you provided the link. Most don't. Most run the 12.8-13.1 that the mags get.
I'm looking at some of your posts and you say the GTO gets raped by the Audi RS6. Well if you look at the magazines test times, they are 12.6 for the RS6 and 13.1 for the GTO. If that's the case you need to agree that the GTO rapes the Mustang GT, which when that subject is brought up, you tend to lean towards a number of 13.3 for the Mustang and say they are a decent race with the advantage to the GTO. I'm reading this from your past posts.
You then say people have gotten into the low 12's with the RS6. You would be correct in saying 12.3 is a rape of the GTO, except you always forget to give the GTO credit for the 12.8 runs that have been recorded. Now we are back to an RS6 raping a GTO is = to a GTO raping a Mustang GT.
Roush's own video shows the 427R running 13.3 and I provide a video that progresses from 13.6 to 13.4. I run a guy in a Roush and he runs a high 13.3. You say that just isn't the case. An extra 135 hp has got to be worth more than that. Well I haven't seen that to be the case. My physical experience, Roush's own video provided with the car and a video of one at the track are all, how did you say, misconstruing info and giving one sided reasoning. Well you better call Roush and let them know that they are helping me by misconstruing info too. It's a problem with the power delivery. When you modify a car the hp and torque peaks change. Without changing gearing you can't realize the full potential of the increase in power. Also a higher peak, if it follows the same path to just a higher peak output, really doesn't deliver that much added performance especially out of the hole.
Or maybe your perception is not reality. Your ideal 13.30 happened on a 42 degree day with a lot of sun and a real sticky track, at sea level and with a tail wind and the real numbers are a 13.8 and a 1/2 second improvement with a supercharger.
You quote that the Mustang GT is at least 250 lbs lighter than the GTO. Your wrong, it's 175. You always seem to do the exactly what you accuse me of. You come up with something that is exceptionally good for the car you favor and then use a less favorable number for the GTO and the Vette. Weights for the 350Z come to mind too.
When someone posts a kill your the first guy here with the BS flag, or to question if the other guy knew what he was doing or that he was racing, or what are your mods.
You need to be consistant. Want to use 12.3 for an RS6, use 12.8 for the GTO. Want to use 12.2 for the GT500, use 11.8 for the C5 Z06, and since LTChappa's car actually puts down 360hp to the wheels and a C5Z06 puts a similar number, I was off most C5 Z06's put down 350-355 stock, and the weight disadvantage for a Vette vert is only 50lbs, and the tire traction issue isn't an issue from a roll, lets look at his car as being an almost equal to the C5 Z06. I've heard you say that the new 350Z gets a mid 13's 1/4 mile, you need to agree then that the GTO just rapes it with a 12.8.
The truth be told though, I'm pretty darn consistant about using magazine times to compare cars, and not magazines like MM&FF or GMHTP that have agendas, but stuff like Road and Track and Car and Driver. They may not get the fastest numbers, but they are very consistant from car to car so you know what they are equally. The Nissan 350Z is a 13.7 car. The GTO is a 13.1 car. The GT500 is a drivers race versus the GTO with the advantage to the GT500. The 03/04 Cobra is a drivers race. I've always said that. When I look at an STI or EVO, which from your posts, you'd think they are faster than the GTO, I see a magazine tested car getting 13.3 versus the GTO's 13.1. You see a track day that someone posted at 12.8 and say it beats the GTO, where, again your missing the 12.8 that the GTO has run. You always look to the best numbers from a source for cars you are comparing to the Vette and GTO and never consder the best numbers from the Corvette or GTO.
Am I defensive about the GTO yep. Easy to be when it beats a Mustang GT in a road test and the magazine gives the win to the Mustang because it's a nicer looking more popular car. It's easy to be when no one seems to give the car the credit it deserves. Then a guy like you comes in to the GTOFORUM and uses the worst numbers you see for the GTO to compare to the best for other cars. And a guy like you comes in and questions everyone that posts a kill of another car.
Am I a fanboy of GM, yep, I admit it. That's something way more honest than your able to do, admit a bias towards my favorite brand. Are there brands I don't like yep, and I admit it so everyone knows where I'm coming from. I'm definately not a fan of Porsches. They are great cars, but I don't see a cost benefit for the extra money you pay. Do I still criticize GM for failings, you bet. Am I realistic in my postings, I think so, and I've only ever been warned about 1 post in over 2300. I know of 2 that you have been warned about with only 260 or so posts. I always give props to cars tht I feel deserve it, 03/04 Cobras, Fox body Mustangs, Contour SVT's, Mercedes E55 AMG's, lets just say all AMG cars, even the GTR, although we don't know if the production version will equal the prototypes.
I guess it's fair to say I have a problem with you. I don't have an issue with anyone else on this forum. I pick on Mustang's, but wouldn't be stupid enough to run ForensicSteve for pinks in anything I've owned. I love hearing positive posts from people with cars other than GTO's and GM's. I just can't stand your constant attacks on GM's and GTO's.
So with all that said it's addios. Your off to ignore and I could care less how much you attack GM. Everyone knows you for what you are and most ignore you already.
I'm not here to troll, man. And all of the above bolded comments were directed towards Fergy, and not the forum members or GTO owners as a whole. My apology if it came off as such. I love GM, but I'm not a nutswinger, and am open to all makes and models.
I decided to ignore you, but there is a comment you made that I can't.
I could easily post that the C6 Z06 is a 10 second car. There are those that have gotten Z06's into the tens with the paper air filter and the stock street tires. I call it a 11.5-11.7 car.
I could easily post that the C5 Z06 runs 11.8 stock, runs have been made and verified, but I don't, it's a 12.3 second car.
When I quote the GTO, I quote the proven test results which show 13.1 in the 1/4.
When I quote S197 Mustang GT's I quote the 13.8 that most magazines get. Sure guys have gone faster. Some have gone slower too.
When I quote the GT500 it's a 12.8-13.1 that the magazines have gotten, will they run 12.4, well you provided the link. Most don't. Most run the 12.8-13.1 that the mags get.
I'm looking at some of your posts and you say the GTO gets raped by the Audi RS6. Well if you look at the magazines test times, they are 12.6 for the RS6 and 13.1 for the GTO. If that's the case you need to agree that the GTO rapes the Mustang GT, which when that subject is brought up, you tend to lean towards a number of 13.3 for the Mustang and say they are a decent race with the advantage to the GTO. I'm reading this from your past posts.
You then say people have gotten into the low 12's with the RS6. You would be correct in saying 12.3 is a rape of the GTO, except you always forget to give the GTO credit for the 12.8 runs that have been recorded. Now we are back to an RS6 raping a GTO is = to a GTO raping a Mustang GT.
Roush's own video shows the 427R running 13.3 and I provide a video that progresses from 13.6 to 13.4. I run a guy in a Roush and he runs a high 13.3. You say that just isn't the case. An extra 135 hp has got to be worth more than that. Well I haven't seen that to be the case. My physical experience, Roush's own video provided with the car and a video of one at the track are all, how did you say, misconstruing info and giving one sided reasoning. Well you better call Roush and let them know that they are helping me by misconstruing info too. It's a problem with the power delivery. When you modify a car the hp and torque peaks change. Without changing gearing you can't realize the full potential of the increase in power. Also a higher peak, if it follows the same path to just a higher peak output, really doesn't deliver that much added performance especially out of the hole.
Or maybe your perception is not reality. Your ideal 13.30 happened on a 42 degree day with a lot of sun and a real sticky track, at sea level and with a tail wind and the real numbers are a 13.8 and a 1/2 second improvement with a supercharger.
You quote that the Mustang GT is at least 250 lbs lighter than the GTO. Your wrong, it's 175. You always seem to do the exactly what you accuse me of. You come up with something that is exceptionally good for the car you favor and then use a less favorable number for the GTO and the Vette. Weights for the 350Z come to mind too.
When someone posts a kill your the first guy here with the BS flag, or to question if the other guy knew what he was doing or that he was racing, or what are your mods.
You need to be consistant. Want to use 12.3 for an RS6, use 12.8 for the GTO. Want to use 12.2 for the GT500, use 11.8 for the C5 Z06, and since LTChappa's car actually puts down 360hp to the wheels and a C5Z06 puts a similar number, I was off most C5 Z06's put down 350-355 stock, and the weight disadvantage for a Vette vert is only 50lbs, and the tire traction issue isn't an issue from a roll, lets look at his car as being an almost equal to the C5 Z06. I've heard you say that the new 350Z gets a mid 13's 1/4 mile, you need to agree then that the GTO just rapes it with a 12.8.
The truth be told though, I'm pretty darn consistant about using magazine times to compare cars, and not magazines like MM&FF or GMHTP that have agendas, but stuff like Road and Track and Car and Driver. They may not get the fastest numbers, but they are very consistant from car to car so you know what they are equally. The Nissan 350Z is a 13.7 car. The GTO is a 13.1 car. The GT500 is a drivers race versus the GTO with the advantage to the GT500. The 03/04 Cobra is a drivers race. I've always said that. When I look at an STI or EVO, which from your posts, you'd think they are faster than the GTO, I see a magazine tested car getting 13.3 versus the GTO's 13.1. You see a track day that someone posted at 12.8 and say it beats the GTO, where, again your missing the 12.8 that the GTO has run. You always look to the best numbers from a source for cars you are comparing to the Vette and GTO and never consder the best numbers from the Corvette or GTO.
Am I defensive about the GTO yep. Easy to be when it beats a Mustang GT in a road test and the magazine gives the win to the Mustang because it's a nicer looking more popular car. It's easy to be when no one seems to give the car the credit it deserves. Then a guy like you comes in to the GTOFORUM and uses the worst numbers you see for the GTO to compare to the best for other cars. And a guy like you comes in and questions everyone that posts a kill of another car.
Am I a fanboy of GM, yep, I admit it. That's something way more honest than your able to do, admit a bias towards my favorite brand. Are there brands I don't like yep, and I admit it so everyone knows where I'm coming from. I'm definately not a fan of Porsches. They are great cars, but I don't see a cost benefit for the extra money you pay. Do I still criticize GM for failings, you bet. Am I realistic in my postings, I think so, and I've only ever been warned about 1 post in over 2300. I know of 2 that you have been warned about with only 260 or so posts. I always give props to cars tht I feel deserve it, 03/04 Cobras, Fox body Mustangs, Contour SVT's, Mercedes E55 AMG's, lets just say all AMG cars, even the GTR, although we don't know if the production version will equal the prototypes.
I guess it's fair to say I have a problem with you. I don't have an issue with anyone else on this forum. I pick on Mustang's, but wouldn't be stupid enough to run ForensicSteve for pinks in anything I've owned. I love hearing positive posts from people with cars other than GTO's and GM's. I just can't stand your constant attacks on GM's and GTO's.
So with all that said it's addios. Your off to ignore and I could care less how much you attack GM. Everyone knows you for what you are and most ignore you already.
Alright, I'm done being nice, and it's time to be blunt and brutally honest-
You are full of sh!t. And you know you are. I NEVER EVER quote times for the best from a car and imply they all run that in normal conditions. Go and find ONE post where I did such. I guaranDAMNtee you you will come up empty handed. I'm well aware that LS2 GTO's have gone 12.80's. I know C% Z06's have gone 11.70's. I know C6 Z06's have gone 10.90's. You can toss those numbers around all you want. Audi RS6's have gone 12.00's, 350Z's have gone 13.10's, S197 GT's have gone 13.20's. Now, like I said, go and find ONE post where I let on they all run those numbers, and those are the times that can be expected from those cars. I never have, never will. I give EVERY cars' numbers on what they will run w/ a good driver. Not a professional one, or one who doesn't know the gearshift from the turn signal stalk. I give the average times good drivers pull off w/ them. Example- An RS6 is a low 12 sec car. GT500 is a mid 12 sec car. So is the Roush 427R. LS2 GTO is a low 13 sec car. So is the Evo IX and STi. S197 GT is a mid 13 sec car. So is the 350Z.
On the topic of the RS6 vs GTO, it's fairly simple. We all know how hard the GTO is to launch, and how times will range from 12.80's if you're damn good, to 13.80's if you're not. RS6's don't have this problem. They're fool proof. They'er ALL auto, and ALL AWD. They'll run low 12's w/ Evan Smith behind the wheel, and they'll run low 12's w/ 16 yo behind the wheel. Hold the brakes, build the boost, relaese brakes, WOT, and that's that. They'll run low 12's all day. Now, let's just go w/ 12.20, which is easily ontainable. Verus 12.80, which is about the BEST one can expect from an LS2 GTO, and that is rapage. .6 difference is rape. No way around that. Now let's take the GTO at 12.80 and compare it to the Z's 13.10, and that is NOT rape. That's a 3 tenths difference. But most GTO's are 13.1-.30's. Most new Z's are 13.4-60's. So it doesn't matter if you use best times, or average good times, there is about the same difference.
You just got done admitting you're a fanboy. That's good. Not too many people claim their flaws. Now if you'd only admit you're a self-absorbed, egotistical douche, we'd really be making some headway. And yeah, I just said that. You can make your little snide, spiteful comments in yor posts, that's fine. I'll come right out in the open and speak my miind. You're a Page Ranking!ck. I hardly ever call BS on someone's kill stroy or knock them. And I NEVER talk crap about the GTO. The only problem is that guys like you get all butt hurt and bent out of shape over anything that relinquishes the GTO's self-proclaimed status as king of the road. Or any other GM for that matter.
You can have a problem w/ me all you want. Your problem stems from the fact that I'm not a GM nutswinger, and the fact that I'm not afraid to call people out when they're wrong/misinformed. And just because this is a GTO forum, naturally most of the people who are wrong are GM guys. And you just use that as ammo in your bullsh!t claim that I'm some GM hater. You couldn't be any wronger. Out of the big three, GM is FAR and away my favorite. I've never liked Ford. And as a former dodge fan, their new lineup and offerings disgust me. GM is the only one is changing for the better, and staying true to their roots at the same time. But it doesn't matter, you've already formed your opinion of me, and nothing I say is going to change that. You're convinced I'm an anti-General troll, and will stop at nothing to make me out to be such. But it's okay, I've already got you pegged, too, and my thoughts def aren/t changing either.
And btw, I find it funny how in the other thread, you mention my 'lack of experience/knowledge' when I'm the one always calling your bullsh!t claims out and proving them wrong. But whatever. You've long since expelled your ammo, and are doing nothing but back pedaling and grasping straws in a meager attempt to make out w/ your pride and dignity intact....
..... and you're failing miserably I might add....
When it turns to name calling, that crosses the line. We can disagree and still maintain respect for each other. Keep that in mind and tone it down in the rest of the forums. Thread closed for now.
When it turns to name calling, that crosses the line. We can disagree and still maintain respect for each other. Keep that in mind and tone it down in the rest of the forums. Thread closed for now.
I agree 100%. Folks please use private messages if you have a problem with another member. Some of the stuff in this thread is totally unacceptable. We (admin) have been more than patient with this.
Please play nice!
Mods, let's leave this closed for a while and not delete it so that some of the players, you know who you are, can read and heed the advice given to them.
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