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Central Virginia Machine Service (CVMS) Negative Review

46K views 122 replies 20 participants last post by  Goat Roper 
#1 ·
WARNING! Do not send your engine to this hack!


Well after almost a year of waiting to get this engine back from Jim L. @ CVMS including tearing it back down to a long block to fix things like rusted tins, cracked hub, leaking timing cover etc. I again had noise coming from the rockers and since this was the third time I needed to go back in to adjust I decided to pull one of the Magnum roller rockers to see WTF was going on.
Evidently Jim just pulled whatever push rods out of his junk pile, the rod on the bottom in the pic is the proper rod, the other 15 were destroyed by the lift on the cam and just hammered into fragments.
At least one out of the 16 was right.



I ordered a new set from Comp cams, they arrived and I installed them yesterday and used a magnet to get all the fragments I could and changed the oil and filter.
Of course the damage has been done, I now have 2 pounds of oil pressure at idle and 20 pounds at 3,000 RPM.
500 miles on the engine and it is junk, thanks Jim thousands of dollars pissed down a rathole over 30 dollars worth of pushrods.
I wouldn't send a lawnmower engine to CVMS and at this point I don't know what I am going to do with this car since there are no more reputable Pontiac builders and I don't have another 7K to throw away.
If anyone wants this car click on my pics and make me an offer, I have over 60K into it and am done putting money into it.
 

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#2 ·
Hope you cool off and do the right thing which is to take him to court so he does not screw any others. Not sure of state but most have a small claim court process that you could handle your self with pictures and a good write up from a willing engine builder. May not have the limits but might get close and maybe he will settle long before, best luck Doug
 
#3 ·
If this is them have you tried this???CVMS warrants all products against defects in workmanship. New parts purchased through CVMS are warranted by the manufacturer, and CVMS will act as an agent for the customer in the event of a warranty claim. Parts not purchased through CVMS are the responsibility of the provider.
Complete engines machined and assembled by CVMS, and parts supplied by CVMS, intended for normal highway use, are warranted for a period of one (1) year from date of delivery (or pickup) or 12,000 miles, which ever occurs first. That warranty is limited to engine assembly and parts attached by CVMS, and does not include incidental damage.
Labor charges for work performed under this warranty are limited to the fair and traditional charges for the operations performed. CVMS must authorize any warranty related work prior to accepting the charges.
CVMS does not pay labor claims to private party installations.
Any issues arrising from neglect or abuse, including but not limited to, racing or other performance contest, overheating, oil starvation, application of nitrous oxide, etc. are not covered under warranty.
Issues arrising from installation are the responsibility of the installer.
There are no warranties, implied or expressed, for any racing or other competition application engines, either to performance or longevity.
 
#4 ·
Yeah read that bogus warranty, the guy is done and sold the biz.
The guy is 2,400 miles away and I am not going to waste time and money on a small claims court action that will net me an uncollectable judgment.
The rods I sent with the engine were all the welded ball type like the one at the bottom in the pic and were checked before I sent them.
I don't have a clue what happened to my parts or why the wrong rods were installed all I know is I got royally screwed by Jim L. @ CVMS.
I have zero recourse as far as getting anything back all I can do is post this info so the next poor SOB may find this review and not send his engine to this hack.
Pisses me off, I did my due diligence and research because I didn't want to be the chump that spent thousands and got 500 miles out of the engine yet here I am, shoddy workmanship and I am also out the 15 hundred in shipping both ways just to have this ******* lose bolts and FUBAR my engine.
 
#5 ·
CVMS did the rebuild on my 389 tri-power. I was in the process of installing the motor when I was pulled away on 04/29/16 for family issues. I'll be home by 05/29/16 and plan to get re-started asap. I hope I will not have the same issues GR is having, I'll keep the board posted.
 
#118 ·
Seems like CVMS has gone from bad to worse Steve, I shouldn't have recommended him on his rep and waited until my "turnkey" engine arrived.

As of today his site is still up and he is taking people's money for his "service".

Central Virginia Machine Service - Home of the ***** Engine!

Sadly nothing can be done and people that don't search his rep will continue to get screwed.
:(
 
#7 ·
Sorry, man, this sucks horribly:surprise: I can surely understand your being PO'd big time. If you don't sell her, perhaps Rukee's thoughts have some merit.

I for one appreciate you posting this BS from CVMS....I had entertained thoughts about him re-doing my tired engine. NOT NOW. I had a very thoughtful meticulous Ford racing machinist do a Chev 350 for my Studebaker and he did it beautifully. Although I sold it two years ago, I hear from friends in NC that the 350 is still smoking newer Camaros and Mustangs. My point is that I think I'll talk to him about learning Pontiac idiosyncrasies and do the work here where I can stop in every day. An intelligent conscientious machinist can learn to do Pontiacs, just as they learn IH engines, etc. I'm thinking it is crap that only 1/2 dozen guys in the whole USA can do a Pontiac engine. Sticking with local people who are trustworthy makes more sense to me.

Am really sorry you got the shaft from someone who reputedly was a really good shop. Hopefully some lemonade can be made from this lemon experience.
We are all rooting for you:smile3:
 
#8 ·
This SUCKS. But, I would cool off and do exactly as Rukee suggested. If your crank is scored, that's something else. But if it's just the bearings, it's a cheap and easy fix...Backing away from this thing, and looking at it with an overview, you have an otherwise cherry and gorgeous '67 GTO in a great color combination. Even with a $500 junkyard engine, the car would be pretty special. Take a break, and get back to us. I feel VERY poorly about being one of the guys that recommended CVMS in the first place. There are some excellent shops in southern Ca, and they are listed on the AMES website. Paul Carter is one of the guys, and he's in AZ, but I would consider talking to him....I'd bet he'd help.
 
#9 ·
It isn't your fault GTOG I just happened to be the guy in the queue when Jim's eye went south.
When I got it back with the cracked hub, missing parts and rusted out tins I should have torn it down further than I did and I would have found those bogus rods.
I am just flat out of cash and haven't even told the wife the engine is junk, I just want the car to quietly go away at this point.
 
#10 ·
I hate that you have all these problems, man, one after another. Never seen anything like it. Good thing that isn't my motor because I would be making a personal road trip with engine in tow. Guarantee problem would be solved. :mad:

I gotta ask this out of curiosity. What kind of lift does your cam have? What is the rocker ratio of your Magnum roller rockers?
 
#11 ·
PJ the guy is done, he may have done some of the machining on this engine but whoever assembled it didn't have a clue.

Lift is. 462 on intake .470 on exhaust 1.5 ratio on the rockers.
You can see when it is at the top of the lobe with a mirror the seat in the lifter was cold rolling the metal on the pushrods.
The only one that wasn't screwed up was the one with the welded ball.
It needed the radius, those were the wrong rods and they took out the bearings.
Oil pressure when cold is 60 and goes to 80 if I rev it, 40 at idle.
It goes down to like 2 or 3 when warm at idle and the idiot light starts to flicker.
Do you think the cam bearings are toast or just the rods and mains?
 
#12 ·
OK, nothing too exotic or radical on the cam & stock 1.5 ratio rocker arms.

I can't honestly say if the cam bearings would pose a problem or not. I would think that your filter would have picked up most of the debris. It could be possible that your oil pump screen may have gotten somewhat clogged up and that is the culprit. My experience of the past in losing my oil pressure was the oil pick-up screen was so fine a mesh that the heavy weight oil collapsed it and allowed the unscreened oil to be drawn through the relief hole (which it is supposed to do when clogged) and sucked up a small chunk of rubber that got lodged in the pressure relief ball found in the oil pump. With the pressure relief ball stuck open, the engine does not build oil pressure. It is possible you may have experienced the same thing and have a trapped piece of metal in the pump holding the relief ball stuck open.

If you had the valve covers off, did you happen to see/notice if you had oil coming from the pushrods/rocker arms with the engine running? With such low oil pressure, there really should be very little. If you had a good flow, then I might also suspect the gauge/oil pressure line may be clogged and giving a false reading - just sayin'.

I can only imagine how disgusted you are at this point, but it may be the wisest to pull the engine and inspect it. At this point, I might almost bring it to a local machine shop and have them disassemble the bottom end to take a look and mike up the crank & bearings just to make sure there wasn't any other shoddy work that will bite you. I think we ALL share your frustration at this point.
 
#13 ·
I had good pressure on #6 intake, the rest not so much.
The two head bolts with the studs for the drippers were not on the engine just regular bolts and the drippers came in a box inside the crate with the engine and I don't have a set of clips so I has no way of really running it, when #6 started squirting I shut it down.
Jim has done enough engines to know about those bolts, that is another clue he didn't assemble it.
I spent all the funds I had, the engine already cost me twice buying gaskets and parts that were supposed to come on this "turnkey" engine so I should be finished not pulling the engine and starting over.
I had a bad feeling after having to tear it down to a longblock that it was going to just grenade, everything was done half assed I just didn't tear it down far enough.
 
#14 ·
Im sorry to hear about this first off. I can only imagine your frustration. I too was under the impression they did reasonable work. Wrong pushrod length? Thats busch league. A comp pushrod length checker costs $15 and takes 15 minutes to determine the right length with a sharpie and spinning the crank. Both my 400 and 455 I assembled myself that way if it locked up or rattled apart there is only one guy to blame. Me. I am in the process of selling my current aluminum headed 455 to move to a Chevrolet crate zz502. The only people it seems worth while to trust assembling an engine these days are yourself or a monster engine builder with a REAL warranty like GM.
 
#15 ·
All I can find is Butler for a small fortune and there is a shop in No Cal that will do an LS conversion also for a small fortune.
There is a local car show this Sunday and I am going to gimp it there and see if I can sell it, if not maybe Craigslist.
Time to throw in the towel and get what I can get for it and move on.
It sucks but it is what it is, no way I am rolling the dice and getting screwed again by another Pontiac prima donna.
Hindsight being 20/20 I should have bought a Hellcat.
:(
 
#16 ·
Just remember its not the cars fault, your fault or anyones fault but the shops. I can shine a lot of light on the LS conversion as I a completing one in my father in laws 66 tempest as we speak. It was actually pretty painless if you have a question ask away. I vote cut the losses on that motor and install a GM built crate long block chevrolet engine or LS and keep the Goat! All the purists will say other wise but to hell with 50 year old technology. Nothing wrong with wanting an EFI turn key 20mpg ultra reliable drive train with over drive. Makes these old cars fun to drive if you ask me. With my car I just wanted the 1966 looks but everything else I shoot for modern technology. My 455 is for sale im all done with carbs and mechanical ignition timing. There is a reason why it is non existant in the modern world of new automobiles.
 
#17 ·
The next guy can decide what he wants to do with it, I am done putting time and money into this car and I just need to take my loss and move on.
I should be enjoying this car now not looking at another year and thousands more.
B.B King said it best, the thrill is gone.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I paid 44K for it and put another 20+ into it.
Power disc brakes, rebuilt suspension, Gardner factory repro exhaust system.
Here is the link to the ad when I bought it.

1967 Pontiac GTO, Calif Since New, ?Black Plate?, Matching Numbers, Beautifully Restored, 1st Owner 41 Yrs!

It wasn't fully restored, the mechanical end of it was shot but now it has been all gone through.
It looks as good as it did the day it rolled out of the factory except of course for the junk CVMS original engine.

I would like to get 40K for it.
 
#20 ·
Man, I wish you were closer. My machinist is not a Pontiac guy per se, but regardless of what others say, a GOOD machine shop can do a nice build on that motor for not a lot of money. The shop I use has done Chevys for me, two Pontiacs, a 340 Mopar, and some Fords for some friends. Not an issue with any of them that I'm aware of. I'm 500 miles North of you but if you're interested, let me know.
 
#21 ·
Agree a few basic and a knowledgable owner that works with builder make a great team. My guy does Pontiac but let's face it not that many out there compared to ford/Chevy and mopars. He does one Pontiac for every 15 othe makes . If he a quality builder there if no way you don't gets a good motor. He has built me two motors and I've seen soom ram air four and strokers come out of his shop I can only dream of owning. Best luck . I think the most important thing is Pontiac folk can do is educate yourself (rocky and Jim hands have tons of great informationin thete books read it a couple of times) and do not work with someone who won't listen/ and work with your concerns ... Doug
 
#22 ·
There are PLENTY of highly qualified shops that can properly build a Pontiac V8 engine in the US and Canada. Unless one is building the most exotic, high end aftermarket block foundation, $7000+ race headed race engine, there is NO rational reason to waste hard earned money shipping across the entire country a complete street engine (numbers matching or not) to one of these Boutique engine builders. The shipping charges alone are ridiculous. shipping a pair of heads or an intake to have professionally CNC ported, that's another thing. Needing to pickup 10 cfm at lower valve lifts in a stock set of heads, through a killer valve job...no porting, NHRA stocker type build, you darn bet you, properly ship the heads out, heavily insured to the best cyl head man avail. For that type of work, it won't be Pbody or the Butlers either.

Again, I'm sorry for your bad experience, but buying into Pbody's pied piper BS on bulletin board after bulletin board, sorry, his way wasn't and isn't the only way. Several of the long time engine builders Ive dealt with were building low 10sec Dport Pontiac engines 20 years before Pbody decided to move across the country and hang out his shingle in VA. Of course from disagreements ive read on the Net, all that experience of building mild to wild Pontiacs engines didnt mean sh!t if one isnt running XE grind cams in a street engine, or plunking down 12-14k on the Chinese junk crank, aftermarket headed flavor of the month engines build from the "master" himself. Best to you in fixing the short block, it isn't rocket science. Back late tonight, am waaaay from home and am hitting country yards all day.
 
#23 ·
Eric, post some pics of your car.....and maybe put an ad here and on the AMES site. 40k is all the money for a mint car needing an engine, but you never know. I've never had an engine assembled for myself, not knowing any better. Always did my own assembly after checking the machinist's work. This sucks, but your car is so clean and is a great color combo, so it is still very desirable.
 
#24 ·
I've never had an engine assembled for myself, not knowing any better. Always did my own assembly after checking the machinist's work.
That's where I am too. I realize not everyone wants to (or can) do that, but I believe this is what could be Eric's saving grace, should he decide to keep the car and spend just a wee bit more. Probably the only way to salvage the project and amortize the expense out over time. Long term, I believe it would be worth it.
 
#25 ·
Eric, sooo sorry to hear of your bad experience with CVMS, I've seen numerous people refer to them as a Pontiac specialist. Imo, a good engine rebuilder/machinist can build any engine to high quality as he should have quality equipment and some business integrity as well as the skills and know how.

I've been down the same road as well and paid for shoddy workmanship and had parts downright stolen by shops. My only recourse was to do it all myself and that's not an easy road either. My 65 Satellite was a five year odyssey that ended with a fire, destroying the car completely, after multiple engine and transmissions and thousands of dollars and my hours LOST. But I came back, bigger and better and built the next one myself. Automotive therapy.....

I hope this doesn't sour you on the hobby, you still have a beautiful GTO and honestly, just stick a motor in the thing and drive it. You can paint a garden variety craigslist 400 up and enjoy the car. Or sell it and buy a Vette.......
 
#27 ·
I would at least look at the rockers to make sure his apprentice put in the correct pushrods.

I sent an email to Jim so we will see what he does to make this right.
So far I am out the cost of shipping, the rebuild, the parts that didn't come on the engine that should have and the shop time to R&R the engine.
 
#29 ·
Wasn't he a member on here at one point?

Hard to believe someone would think they could run a business anywhere in this country and not know what the internet can do for/to their business. If you do shoddy work the word will get out there and these days people do research. If you don't think people won't see this thread and run away from a shop that turns out shoddy workmanship you've got a rude awakening when the phone stops ringing.

Eric, if nothing else you have the satisfaction that every time someone searches out CVMS they will see this thread. I say Jim, or another representative should be able to give you an answer either in person so you can share the results here or to come on here and apologize to preserve their reputation and offer to make things right.
 
#31 ·
He doesn't care Alky, he has the money and the chump he sold the biz to is stuck with the bad rap.
This is all I can do since I am out thousands of dollars is to let others know my experience with #CVMS .

Goat Roper Posted - 27 May 2016 : 11:37:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Admin

Recently, one of our modern cars was at the shop for electronic diagnosis and several modules were replaced. When the car was picked up, it fired right up and everything looked and acted fine. Within a 1/4 mile, my check engine light came on....after a few expletives, I drove the car back to the shop. I walked into the manager and told him what happened. He brought his computer and plugged it in and did a check and the bug was fixed. When there's a problem, one should always go back to the shop or person that did the work. This type of thing happens to all of us...and most often the problem is corrected usually at no cost to the customer. The longer one waits after and issue is discovered, the more intervening factors come into play, and that may dissuade the shop or subcontractor from doing anything. Never lallygag on stuff like this.



If I was within 1/4 mile I would have been there but I am 2,300 miles away and the guy won't answer my emails or phone calls.
This isn't plugging in a computer and replacing a sensor, this is pulling a motor and rebuilding it because of faulty workmanship.
Jim...are you out there?
Notice he has gone silent on both groups, he knows what he sent me.
I have no idea how my tins got so rusted or why I got the original cracked hub instead of the new one and balancer.
Of course no bolts, just the old balancer in a box. I got a new fuel pump in a box but again no bolts.
The head bolts were installed in the wrong locations so since there was no studs to mount the drippers on they came in a box but at least I got them and didn't have to buy another set from Frank.
No flex plate, shim plate or bolt plate and of course another order from Ames to replace the bolts and another order to Frank's for the bolts and plates then another order for the cracked and leaking timing cover.
He did finally send me a new plate but two weeks later and by then I had already bought another one.
Nice job for a plug and play engine, this guy royally hosed me and won't even talk to me.
Jim...Are you out there?

I don't know who put this engine together but it sure as hell wasn't anyone who knew anything about Pontiacs.
Why would you install one proper push rod and 15 incorrect ones?
That was another 30 bucks plus shipping for a set but of course the pieces of the incorrect rods have done their magic.
I was supposed to get this engine back end of March, first two weeks in April it didn't get here until Oct. 28 then it was on the engine stand for another month while I bought replacement parts and waited on shipping.
For my patience he was supposed to send me a period correct distributor no charge but that didn't arrive, another 190 bucks from Frank's plus shipping.
Do I need to go on?
This is a parts matching car and I sent the engine to the other side of the country to have "the best" do the build and what I got was an incomplete cobbled together POS with rusted tins!
Here is the valley pan, oil pan was just as bad.

http://www.gtoforum.com/f92/wtb-1967-400-valley-pan-97513/

What say you Jim?
Are you out there?
Thanks for taking my money and ruining my engine.
 
#30 ·
WOW Jim strikes again.
IMHO Jim's glory days are far far away.
He has been hit or miss for over a decade.
We ran into issues with delay after delay after delay only to finally get an engine that was hastily assembled and were charged for parts WE supplied and/or not used. We at least opened it up before firing and found many issues with parts, clearances and contamination.
We wrote it off as ol Jim is just getting senile. We cut our losses and moved on to bigger and better.

Sorry Jim your a nice guy but facts are facts.
Cheers

 
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