Is this a good deal on this engine? - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2012, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
 
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Is this a good deal on this engine?

Hey guys, I came accross this seller offering what is essentially a remanufactured (rebuilt) crate engine. It is a Pontiac 400 stroked out to a Stroker 461. Is this a good price for what he is offering? Is what he is offering a good setup? I am not a racer, more of a bloulavard cruiser, but 420 HP sounds mighty impressive to me.

Here are the details:

This offer is for a Pontiac 400/461 stroker motor 420hp , READY TO RUN!! No need to track down all the components necessary to complete the engine, quality parts are installed, and adjusted for easy start-up and smooth performance. An Edelbrock 750cfm carburator with electric choke is supplied, for easy cold weather starting, along with a 50,000 volt HEI distributor - 8mm wires and plugs. A NEW timing cover-water pump-balancer-aluminum valley pan-chrome center hole valvecovers are installed, topped with a low profile Professional Products/ProComp intake manifold.

The block recieves the following machining: Bore and hone- deck gasket surface for positive gasket retention. The rotating assembly is by EAGLE, featuring a cast steel 4.25" stroke crankshaft, with 6.800" long forged I-beam rods and Mahle forged pistons. A TREMENDOUS increase in bottom end strength, over the OEM Pontiac parts!!

The heads recieve a 3-angle valvejob with gasket surface milled, assembled with matching new springs and positive valve seals. The Stage II camshaft used has specs (224`@.050" with .470" lift on 110`LSA), providing a LOPING sound in the the exhaust, letting everyone know there is something special under the hood! RAM AIR III heads available, priced $400.00 extra, for a BOOST in power.

This engine is BUILT TO ORDER, with several blocks ready to build, assembly takes only 3-4 weeks to complete, AFTER recieving payment thru PayPal or U.S.Post office money orders.. The engine will be painted the color you choose, with restoration quality finish and looks GREAT under the hood!! Shipping is quoted, please give your city and zip code, for accurate shipping cost!!! This motor carries a 90 day, parts and workmanship guarantee, after start-up.

The PERFECT choice for your CLASSIC Lemans / Tempest / Bonneville / GTO / Catalina / GT37 / Grand Prix / Trans Am / Firebird . Monster TORQUE (550ft.lbs.) will smoke the tires till you get tired of it, while delivering decent fuel economy when cruising.

Price for this CLASSIC performance engine, is only $3999.00 + shipping.
Pontiac 400cid motor available, without stroker package.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2012, 02:09 PM
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It seems too cheap for me. Also, I never pay money before a service is completed or even begun. It's a good way to get burned. I would check this guy's references thoroughly before sending a check. The combo listed sounds good, almost too good to be true. JMHO....others will chime in.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2012, 03:10 PM
 
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I have an engine of his sitting in my garage right now. I have not run it so I am still waiting to see if it works or not but everything seems kosher. I asked some of the good members here on this forum for their opinion and they asked him a few specific questions about pontiac engines and he passed with flying colors so thats how I decided to pull the trigger. You may even find the thread on here somewhere that I had posted. The only thing is I got the impression that the block I was getting was a 69 also and it is actually a 77, no big deal for me.

He gets all his parts through ebay also so you can actually see what parts he is buying from the sources description.

EDIT: here is the link to my own thread about his Buying a Pontiac 400
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2012, 04:23 PM
 
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I checked into Herb as well, and liked what I saw. I was close to buying something from him, but then decided I could piece together my 455 with decent parts for about the same price with a local part time pontiac guy, plus, if there is a problem, I know where he lives and do not have to ship it back across the Country. I would question some of the dyno numbers, especially with non-ported iron heads. But nonetheless, should be plenty of power for most of us "cruisers". Who knows, maybe my 455 will dyno a lot higher than what I expect it to!

I also considered using LARS from CO, who contributes to this site, but again, the distance thing kept me from doing it. I am a strong believer in trying to support those that help me! With that said, Bear and Geetee will probably be sending me an invoice soon...
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2012, 05:41 PM
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Garage
Is this the guy with the ads on Ebay? I've run across them before but have yet to hear from anyone with direct experience with one of his engines. The things he says, and the parts he uses (if he's telling the truth) sound "right". But there's no way to know for sure until someone has first-hand experience, both with the initial build and after having put some miles/passes on one to see how they hold up over time.

If I was going to buy a turn-key motor instead of building my own, I know who I'd turn to

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2012, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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I do not know of any Pontiac motor builders in or around the SF Bay Area, CA, but assuming I find one, could I build this engine (counting parts, labor, and machine work), for this amount?
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-07-2012, 06:42 PM
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No, I don't think you could. When I lived in the Bay Area, until 2003, I always used Stirtz Machine in Oakland. They did the machine work on the original engine that's in my '67 right now back in 1988, and it's still running great and not burning oil, etc, after 77,000 miles of use. I did the assembly myself. Carl was the 'go to' guy back then. He may well have retired. Good quality work: all the journals/clearances were at the small end of the spec chart, and all were the same, not just ''close". I think that engine was close to $2000 back then, just for machine work and parts. I used their services for other Pontiac engines and machine work in general, and never had issues. Always quality work and done in a timely manner. But, it's been awhile.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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I am really liking this engine set up for my GTO. In fact, after talking to folks here and in person, although the LS1/6 is an interesting option (especially with the amount of HP, torq and MPG), I have discovered that I am definitely leaning with a good old Pontiac 400 (okay, a 461 Stroker) for my ride.

Question, for a few hundred dollars more, Herb (the seller of this engine) will add Ram Air III heads. Do the Ram Air III heads contribute a significant increase in performance, HP, or torq? How do Ram Air III heads compare to Ram Air IV or aluminum heads? Besides the number matching issues (not an issue with me), is there any difference in a Ram Air (I, II, III, or IV) block over a regular Pontiac 400 block?
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 06:33 PM
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No difference in block, though some are 4 bolt mains (Not needed). The early Ram Air heads Ram Air II are round port heads and are superior to the ram air 3 and 4 heads. They are also super spendy, running about $4000-$6000 per pair. All other '67-up Pontiac heads flow about the same. You'd be wasting money "upgrading" to ram air 3 or 4 heads, IMO. Aluminum heads outflow and outperform the Pontiac heads by a bunch. And, they are much lighter. A good addition, no doubt. Plus, with aluminum heads, you can and should run about 10:1 compression. Iron heads will require dished pistons so you can run at a max CR of about 9:1. I am running 9.3:1 in my '67 GTO (87cc iron heads that are actually now about 85cc) and have issues on hot days with CA 91 octane gas. So, stick to 9:1 with iron heads, and have the block "zero-decked" to minimize the chance of detonation.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 05:47 AM
 
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reputable engine builders do not use eagle products. search on it you will see. made in china finished in china. at least go with callies or scat. for a sound foundation.
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