Originally Posted by GM Kid

Oddly, Grouch, I think we pretty much agree with one another. We just don't know it yet.

FYI: I grew up in the Sun Belt, not the Rust Belt. My family's in Arizona because my dad spent most of his career at the GM Desert Proving Ground.

I agree that when it comes to recent Pontiac styling, there's a not lot to like. Thank goodness Bob Lutz felt the same and took an ax to the Aztek, body cladding and cartoonish styling. When the '93 F-bodies bowed and I was choosing between them, the Camaro got the nod over the Firebird because I thought the 'Bird's styling was just plain over the top.

I also agree that the mullet-wearing, My-Name-Is-Earl crowd gave the F-bodies a bad name (particularly during the IROC-Z era). Smokey and the Bandit and Knight Rider didn't help, either. The "Cheese Era" for these cars lasted far too long, eventually overshadowing their foundational Trans-Am years when guys like Mark Donohue and Roger Penske gave them glory. A shame.

Cars--and brands--can emerge from such shame, though. The Corvette has successfully shed its image as a poseur's chick-magnet, and Cadillac is making great strides toward once again becoming the Standard of the World. Thank goodness the Corvette isn't defined by the horsepower-deficient '76 model year, nor Cadillac by the Cimarron.

I guess I look at my GM fan-dom the way I look at my love for the Arizona State Sun Devils football team: There was a Golden Era when Frank Kush was coach and the Devils were a scrappy, up-and-coming team that routinely took down the national powerhouses, going so far as to beat Nebraska in the '75 Fiesta Bowl. Then there were some horrible, awful, lamentable years when we hung our heads in ignominy. But I stayed a fan throughout all of that, and I still am. For me, the "stigma" of the bad years is overwhelmed by the program's overall success.

Call it selective memory if you will, but I do the same with Pontiac and Chevrolet. I mourn their failures and boneheaded market moves, but I forgive those gaffes and focus instead on their successes.

Originally Posted by Groucho

Agreed on all counts.

Originally Posted by Groucho

Why does my well-founded dislike of certain GM brands and certain GM designs constitute a bash on all GM products?

Hellloooo....

The company I work for does advanced R&D work for GM. I have a vested interest in them doing well.

Originally Posted by Groucho

However, I find the design of this new Camaro repulsive, funny, and completely lacking in imagination. It's just another embarrassing "me-too" stab at retro, just like the incredibly silly-looking HHR.

Originally Posted by PDSSoft

This makes no sense at all. If you have a vested interest in GM doing well, why would you bash any of their products? Maybe this statement was meant to be sarcastic, maybe you claim freedom of speech, or this is just your opinion. Whatever the excuse, if you truly have a vested interest in GM’s future, it would behoove you to play the cheerleader and not the heckler

Originally Posted by PDSSoft

This makes no sense at all. If you have a vested interest in GM doing well, why would you bash any of their products? Maybe this statement was meant to be sarcastic, maybe you claim freedom of speech, or this is just your opinion. Whatever the excuse, if you truly have a vested interest in GM’s future, it would behoove you to play the cheerleader and not the heckler.



I certainly hope your vested interest is small…

Originally Posted by Groucho

Please. Don't be an idiot. Or try not to be an idiot, anyway. I've little time for posts with the intellectual level of a throw rug.

But, I'm feeling verbose. Lucky you.

I'm not a blind, robotic fanboi, that's why. I can say WTF I want, and I usually elect to do so. And I happen to think that the vast majority of GM's product is embarrassing crap. Malibu? Impala? Monte Carlo? C'mon. HHR? Hilarious. The Grand Prix is just another FWD car with the driving dynamics of a wheelbarrow. I think all of their CVN-class SUVs look like minivans. That Camaro thing? Nasty- looks like it was designed in 7th Grade shop class.

Good thing you didn't get me started on their horrible after-the-sale service.

Originally Posted by ModBoss2

"I can say WTF I want"

3 to Pontiac for hornswogg'lin Groucho into their dealership, gettin' him to buy that GTO, in the midst of all his GM trouncing, Mustang-owner style.

Originally Posted by Groucho

Please. Don't be an idiot. Or try not to be an idiot, anyway. I've little time for posts with the intellectual level of a throw rug.

But, I'm feeling verbose. Lucky you.

I'm not a blind, robotic fanboi, that's why. I can say WTF I want, and I usually elect to do so. And I happen to think that the vast majority of GM's product is embarrassing crap. Malibu? Impala? Monte Carlo? C'mon. HHR? Hilarious. The Grand Prix is just another FWD car with the driving dynamics of a wheelbarrow. I think all of their CVN-class SUVs look like minivans. That Camaro thing? Nasty- looks like it was designed in 7th Grade shop class.

Good thing you didn't get me started on their horrible after-the-sale service.

Originally Posted by PDSSoft

Whatever the case, it would appear you have mastered the art of trolling.

Originally Posted by Groucho

..not to mention, right-hand drive would make passing a bitch.