OK, let me get this straight: If one of our clients is the worlds largest automobile manufacturer, it is my moral imperative to defend her products- all of her products- to the death....even the really, really crappy ones?
Not exactly, if one of your clients is the world's largest automobile manufacturer, it is in your (and your company's) best interest (financially) to defend her products. Especially since you and your company play a part in the product (i.e. Research & Development). Hence the phrase "don't bite the hand that feeds you".
However, you don't offer any constructive criticism, you simply spew derogatory statements and childish remarks. You dislike GM, you (apparently) hate Pontiac, and you condemn the GTO in favor of the Holden Monaro.
Why are you even here? Oh, yes... I almost forgot. You're just trolling through.
Not exactly, if one of your clients is the world's largest automobile manufacturer, it is in your (and your company's) best interest (financially) to defend her products. Especially since you and your company play a part in the product (i.e. Research & Development). Hence the phrase "don't bite the hand that feeds you".
However, you don't offer any constructive criticism, you simply spew derogatory statements and childish remarks. You dislike GM, you (apparently) hate Pontiac, and you condemn the GTO in favor of the Holden Monaro.
Why are you even here? Oh, yes... I almost forgot. You're just trolling through.
Wow. Not sure how you got that stick so far up there, but I'll bet it hurts.
Mustangs are a bigger joke, saddled as they are with a rear suspension one slot removed from a Connestoga Wagon.
Yes, you're not talkin' about the Cobra. There's too many of them out there to try and forget.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho
It actually didn't take a lot for me to convince myself to buy a car branded as a P-P-Pontiac, because I knew it was a relabeled import, not a glitzy, soft, overweight/underpowered glorified grocery getter like the rest of the FWD sleds in the showroom.
Ever been spanked by any LS1 f-bodies? P-P-Pontiacs aren't the only FWDs out there. The fad is catching on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho
It is, after all, a Holden.
You really deserve much better...Aston Martin, BMW, Ferrari...they'd probably get your nose back in joint.
all i can say is the world is a weird place, comming from Aust, i thought Chevy's ruled. It was not rare to see old and new worked holden's with a chevy badge on it.
I came over here to the US and it was a complete surprise, the chevy cars and trucks leave much to be desired and everyone i talk to about them here, basically said that they are a piece of **** and wouldn't consider one.
Kinda weird about the perception from one place to the other, ask just about anyone in Aust what they think about chevy's and it's all good . Obviously if Chevy still sends the LS2's to Aust to put it in anything Holden wants, it'll be all good for a long long time.
Ford Australia designs and builds the Ford Falcon (all australian parts including motor) a worth competor to Holden's commodore lineup. i don't know how many would say that cars produced from GM or Ford are bullet proof in the US but that's how it stands down under.
I think we need to get some Aussies over here on some payrolls.
Ever been spanked by any LS1 f-bodies? P-P-Pontiacs aren't the only FWDs out there. The fad is catching on.
Never. Some have tried, but I assume the vibration and parts falling off the Flex-Bodies is disconcerting because they back off at high-felony velocities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ModBoss2
You really deserve much better...Aston Martin, BMW, Ferrari...they'd probably get your nose back in joint.
I'm an unrepentant BimmerHead, owned two, still love 'em I do...but I've modded my car as an M3 slayer. Schnell!
Not exactly, if one of your clients is the world's largest automobile manufacturer, it is in your (and your company's) best interest (financially) to defend her products. Especially since you and your company play a part in the product (i.e. Research & Development). Hence the phrase "don't bite the hand that feeds you".
In a big company like GM, there's only so much any one sub-contractor can do.
Clearly, most of the products pooped out by the General are just that -- crap. And until they fire enough of the crappy designers and corporate weasels who dilute good products by pecking them to death with price/demand bell curves, pie charts and PowerPoint graphs -- they're going to continue to produce crap. You know the Escalade? GM dealers were asking for that in the early 90's -- but the know-it-alls at corporate said "there's no way anybody's going to pay more than $40K for an SUV." Those people should have been fired. But they're still there collection big salaries to screw up.
Why can't the Camaro be a more mature car with good looks and high performance? Why is it clearly being targeted to mullets? Look at the Dodge Challenger. I'd buy that. The new Camaro? NFW. It just looks too juvenile. And you watch -- stuff like the 20-22 inch wheels and gigantic tires are going to be whittled down to P21570R16s because some beancounter who's Rick Wagoner's buddy will say "oh, look, these tires are much cheaper."
I used to be staunch supporter of American manufacturing. However, after running multiple reviews of suppliers for a boatloads of components for my next company -- I have to tell you that a HUGE percentage of them are fat, dumb and lazy -- just ready to be picked off by the Chinese.
Sad? Yes. But if those clowns actually WORKED and knew how to SELL instead of sitting on their assess and COLLECTING ORDERS -- they might be able to justify a higher price through good service. But, no, they think they can charge MORE and expect ME to do all of their leg work.
As far as GM is concerned, none of those idiots working for it have what it takes to produce a car that is BEST IN CLASS and capable of winning a consumer's hard earned dollars. Which would you have? An Impala or Fusion? An Impala or Camry? An Impala or Accord? Got news for you -- GM just went 0 for 3 until they crank up the rebates. Simple as that.
Last edited by b_a_betterperson : 05-02-2006 at 07:32 PM.
Groucho, I'm not sure how you were able to beat an F-Body with your LS1 powered GTO. You have never mentioned doing anything to enhance the engines power output. That means you were able to beat a 300lb lighter car without any extra hp. You must have gone up against some bad drivers.
I can see your point about not being a cheerleader for GM. If you don't think the product is good you shouldn't promote it. But that means you need to also start trashing Honda, Nissan and Toyota for making crappy front-drive cars. Oh don't forget VW and Saab too. In reality Groucho, most of the cars made are front-drive. There is a reason for this, it's more practical in most of the world to have a front-drive car. Unlike you and I, and the other performance car owners here, most people buy a car to get from point a to point b as cheaply as possible. This means you don't add snow tires in the winter and you want a soft baby buggy suspension.
I will agree that GM needs to develope some decent rear drive platforms. This is beyond the Caddy's, C6, GTO, Solstice and Sky. Something mainstream and mid-sized would be great. Also the styling of this Camaro is somewhat tacky to me. I'm not much of a retro guy but something about the challenger has me going "that's it". The Camaro and Mustang come off as cheap knock-offs of the real thing.
Well as always it's great to see Groucho's cheap put-downs of anything GMNA and to hear him promote the over-priced rental BMW's that he loves. Or should I say BMW cop cars that he loves. Or BMW taxi-cabs that he loves.
Groucho, I'm not sure how you were able to beat an F-Body with your LS1 powered GTO. You have never mentioned doing anything to enhance the engines power output. That means you were able to beat a 300lb lighter car without any extra hp. You must have gone up against some bad drivers.
...or, more likely, crappy ill-handling cars that don't exactly inspire confidence at high speed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fergyflyer
Oh don't forget VW and Saab too. In reality Groucho, most of the cars made are front-drive. There is a reason for this, it's more practical in most of the world to have a front-drive car. Unlike you and I, and the other performance car owners here, most people buy a car to get from point a to point b as cheaply as possible. This means you don't add snow tires in the winter and you want a soft baby buggy suspension.
You can make a well-balanced FWD performance car...the VW GTI, Honda Civic Si, and Acura RSX-S leap to mind. Note that these are small, (relatively) light cars with snappy powerplants. (Toyota offers nothing to the performance driver- they've become as bad as Buick, only possibly with higher domestic content. ) I can't comment on the Cobalt SS, other than I don't like the way it looks...but I've heard decent things. But cramming a V8 into a heavy FWD car is idiocy; a blatant attempt to make these outdated platforms seem like "performance cars." What you get are horrible driving dynamics. Ditto with the silly Grand Prixs that people were crowing about. My God-- what's the point? The point is to fool ignorant people who think the sun rises and sets out of Wagonner's ass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fergyflyer
Well as always it's great to see Groucho's cheap put-downs of anything GMNA and to hear him promote the over-priced rental BMW's that he loves. Or should I say BMW cop cars that he loves. Or BMW taxi-cabs that he loves.
Whatever. Unless you've really driven an M-type hard you won't get it. Driving, BTW, constitutes steering both left and right, with the occasional downshift...not this idiotic, pansy-assed 1/4 mile stuff. The reason I didn't buy a Bimmer last time around is that it seemed they were losing theirt soul. I have to say I'm extremely heartened by the new back-to-performance-basics M-Roadster and M-Coupe - the latter in particular.
Sure as hell doesn't look like any taxi I've ever seen.
Never. Some have tried, but I assume the vibration and parts falling off the Flex-Bodies is disconcerting because they back off at high-felony velocities.
Really? When their performance numbers are closer to that of the LS2 GTOs? I guess a ricer fly-by on your way to top-end limits could be considered a win.
Quote:
I'm an unrepentant BimmerHead, owned two, still love 'em I do...but I've modded my car as an M3 slayer. Schnell!
You really should have snatched up a M5, Bimmerhead...or at least a modded M3. It'd be your little Holden cruncher.
What about a ZO6 (world super-car slayer)? Pretty fast and they just might live up to Grouch braking and handling standards...yes?
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) I can't comment on the Cobalt SS, other than I don't like the way it looks...but I've heard decent things. But cramming a V8 into a heavy FWD car is idiocy; a blatant attempt to make these outdated platforms seem like "performance cars." What you get are horrible driving dynamics. Ditto with the silly Grand Prixs that people were crowing about. My God-- what's the point? The point is to fool ignorant people who think the sun rises and sets out of Wagonner's ass.
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