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Old 02-16-2009, 09:57 PM   #21 (permalink)
dms
 
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Strut rub is not totally a function of alignment. It is also a function of excess movement and migration of the strut bushings. If the strut bushing cannot support the strut shaft, then the shaft can go in-out in respect to the engine, which will also cause some sidewall flux. if the tire is going in and the strut is going out, then the strut can be kissed by the tire. I have documented a strut rub issue with a GTO with at least 1/2 inch clearance and a severally worn strut bushing. I also strongly recommend when trying to stabilize the front end, to also eliminate the garbage radius rod busings. They allow a very serious amount of movement with caster and toe.

Now for the question on spring spacer, Pedders makes 2 styles:
EP386/10 GTO Urethane Coil Spring Insulator. 10 to 13mm increase $19.80
EP386/6 GTO Urethane Coil Spring Insulator. 6 to 9mm increase $16.12

You can put one under the top and bottom rubber insolators. Therefore 2 per spring. The 6mm spacer will change ride height from 6 to 9mm, and the 10mm spacer will change the height between 10-13mm.

Pedders does not make a spring spacer for the fronts.

As a word of caution, many have used these spacers to resolve OE spring sag and in fact work well to return the rears to proper desired heightl However they do not repair the serious loss in OE spring rates as a result of the shipping damage

mike
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:32 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NiceShyGuy View Post
Maybe those who have not spent five grand on the "pedder's solution" .. or put some spring spacers in .... have their GTO's parked at some junk yard somewhere .. where it is being parted out on E-Bay .....

I figure that is why there is little interest in this topic. Those who did not know about these problems ... crashed and burned ... those who did traded in their death-mobiles ... and the brave few have WHEEL spacers and pedders big bad springs in front and pedders drag springs in back. Or like me ... they have a band aid set of insert spring spacers in the back and are just waiting for the struts to rip open the tires in the front.....

This surely will become a collector's car ... the GTO ... sooner than later ... as those who bought and drive these ticking time bombs are sure to crash them without modification !!!

Maybe when Detroit gets $50 billion from Uncle Obama ... they can figure out how to put wheels on the death traps they call cars ....

If this post does not raise a flame it just means ... no one really cares anymore ...
it seriously doesn't require $5,000 to fix strut rub. strut mounts, correct tires and alignment will take care of it. i believe the word hyperbole comes into play in this thead
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
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I have an '05 with the stock 18" wheels, and have gone through the stock 235/40/18's as well as 2 different brands of 245/40/18's, and have had no rubbing issues with any of them.

Regards,

Gary
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Old 02-19-2009, 05:03 PM   #24 (permalink)
 
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9 second GTO ....

Great a Pedder's Peddler with a $19.80 solution? I will have to check that out.

Here is a really cool article .. 9 second GTO ... yea the engineers where high on wacky weed when they designed the suspension ... but hey ... once fixed these new goats can be turned into leopards and eat a Viper for lunch ....

Here is something cool for you take a look at.... 9 second GTO ...

9 second gto

Two guys and a "old wooden baseball bat" ... "two guys in the trunk and one guy driving" ... ha ha .. what we lack in know how and engineering skill we make up for in enthusiasm !!!!

"Our first mods consisted of a Precision Industries 2600 stall Vigilante torque converter and a set of BF Goodrich P275/40R17 Drag Radials. The Drag radials required us to roll the rear fender lips in order for them to fit. It sounds crude but this was done with an old wooden baseball bat, two guys in the trunk and one guy driving. After about an hour we had another 1/2" of tire clearance. We also installed a high flow Unifilter induction kit (shown to the right on a Monaro) and then headed back to the track."


Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
Strut rub is not totally a function of alignment. It is also a function of excess movement and migration of the strut bushings. If the strut bushing cannot support the strut shaft, then the shaft can go in-out in respect to the engine, which will also cause some sidewall flux. if the tire is going in and the strut is going out, then the strut can be kissed by the tire. I have documented a strut rub issue with a GTO with at least 1/2 inch clearance and a severally worn strut bushing. I also strongly recommend when trying to stabilize the front end, to also eliminate the garbage radius rod busings. They allow a very serious amount of movement with caster and toe.

Now for the question on spring spacer, Pedders makes 2 styles:
EP386/10 GTO Urethane Coil Spring Insulator. 10 to 13mm increase $19.80
EP386/6 GTO Urethane Coil Spring Insulator. 6 to 9mm increase $16.12

You can put one under the top and bottom rubber insolators. Therefore 2 per spring. The 6mm spacer will change ride height from 6 to 9mm, and the 10mm spacer will change the height between 10-13mm.

Pedders does not make a spring spacer for the fronts.

As a word of caution, many have used these spacers to resolve OE spring sag and in fact work well to return the rears to proper desired heightl However they do not repair the serious loss in OE spring rates as a result of the shipping damage

mike
dms
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Old 02-19-2009, 05:34 PM   #25 (permalink)
 
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your grandmothers Oldsmobile !!!

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Originally Posted by teamgs View Post
I have an '05 with the stock 18" wheels, and have gone through the stock 235/40/18's as well as 2 different brands of 245/40/18's, and have had no rubbing issues with any of them.

Regards,

Gary
Gary ... put about $3 K into improving hp and preformance of your goat ... and after you do that see how long your back tires keep their rubber and how long it takes for them to lock up in the hub when you put the peddle to the metal !!! My tires where fine until I put $$$ into the preformace.

I hear Hyndai gives you 100,000 mile 30 year warrentee on their little rice burners and they will take it back if you lose your job flippen burgers .... If you get serious about having a need for speed ... the mikey mouse suspension has got to go .

The GTO is not your grandmothers Oldsmobile .. but I bet her ride had stronger springs, and granny didn't have to monkey with the suspension just so she would not crash and burn ...
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:22 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by teamgs View Post
I have an '05 with the stock 18" wheels, and have gone through the stock 235/40/18's as well as 2 different brands of 245/40/18's, and have had no rubbing issues with any of them.

Regards,

Gary
three sets of tires? how many miles do you have on it? the issues that cause strut rub can cause excessive tire wear in addition to or in place of the rub. the front radius rod bushings contribute to wear as well even if the static alignment is dead on. i replaced my front tires at 34,000 but could have easily gone another 10,000. they got changed with the backs so they all matched brand. i drive pretty aggressively too
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Old 02-20-2009, 01:22 PM   #27 (permalink)
 
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Back side tire blow out .... thread ....

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Originally Posted by svede1212 View Post
three sets of tires? how many miles do you have on it? the issues that cause strut rub can cause excessive tire wear in addition to or in place of the rub. the front radius rod bushings contribute to wear as well even if the static alignment is dead on. i replaced my front tires at 34,000 but could have easily gone another 10,000. they got changed with the backs so they all matched brand. i drive pretty aggressively too
Gary ... just has to hit a wall to figure out there is a problem?

Check out this link ... mainly for the 0-4 that came with 17 inch wheels ...

PONTIAC GTO Comments and Complaints - Vehicle Safety Comments and Complaints for PONTIAC GTO

This topic is not new ... I stole this from "The Judge"

The strut rub problem has been going around now for 3 years. If the dealer has not heard anything of this they are either being less than honest, or have not worked on any GTO's. Tell them about it and If they say you are full of BS show them this article.....
Automaker Turns Over Records About GTOs Defects - News Story - WEWS Cleveland

Further here is a link of a class action lawsuit started by people who have been affected.
http://www.pontiacgtoclassaction.com...contact_us.php

If they say they had no idea, they are in denial.

The Strut rub evidence will be on the INSIDE circumference of the tire. It will have a grove cut into the rubber. The wear marks ON THE strut will be evident as the paint will be burnished off. NO hiding it. Makes no matter what the tread life is."

I am borrowing from another thread ... not sure if it is from this board ... however you can find the above ... and interestingly enough the blow-outs complained of are REAR tire blow outs ... so yes Gary ... it does happen and it might happen to you ... wonder why there is no recall or at least why GM does not pay for the "pedder's solution" .... before my warrantee is up I will have a nice long talk with the people at the dealership where I bought my car. Here is the tread there are lots more like it ... just Google ...

Back right side tire BLEW OUT!!
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Old 03-14-2009, 08:23 PM   #28 (permalink)
 
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Sorry, I lost track of this thread. I don't doubt that extra HP might cause more squat, and possibly rubbing.

I also seem to recall that the majority of strut rub issues and complaints were from '04 owners with the 17" wheels.

I have around 80K miles on mine, and the tire wear is always very even, so my alignment should be fine.

The tone of some of the replies to my post suggests that it may have been misinterpreted. I was not trying to slight anyone, or diminish the issues they were/are having. I just was stating my lack of strut rub issues with my relatively high mileage GTO as a point of reference.

Regards,

Gary
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Old 03-17-2009, 06:36 AM   #29 (permalink)
 
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Pedders Peddler ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dms View Post
Strut rub is not totally a function of alignment. It is also a function of excess movement and migration of the strut bushings. If the strut bushing cannot support the strut shaft, then the shaft can go in-out in respect to the engine, which will also cause some sidewall flux. if the tire is going in and the strut is going out, then the strut can be kissed by the tire. I have documented a strut rub issue with a GTO with at least 1/2 inch clearance and a severally worn strut bushing. I also strongly recommend when trying to stabilize the front end, to also eliminate the garbage radius rod busings. They allow a very serious amount of movement with caster and toe.

Now for the question on spring spacer, Pedders makes 2 styles:
EP386/10 GTO Urethane Coil Spring Insulator. 10 to 13mm increase $19.80
EP386/6 GTO Urethane Coil Spring Insulator. 6 to 9mm increase $16.12

You can put one under the top and bottom rubber insolators. Therefore 2 per spring. The 6mm spacer will change ride height from 6 to 9mm, and the 10mm spacer will change the height between 10-13mm.

Pedders does not make a spring spacer for the fronts.

As a word of caution, many have used these spacers to resolve OE spring sag and in fact work well to return the rears to proper desired heightl However they do not repair the serious loss in OE spring rates as a result of the shipping damage

mike
dms
Mike (aka Pedders Peddler) ...

Ok my friend I will take your word for it that the bushings are **** ... most likely you know what you are talking about and not just trying to make a buck off GMs crappy enginering ... then again ... let's face it that is exactly what you are doing .. nothing wrong with that ...

In my book these cars look like the old Grand AMs .. the Grand AMs in fact looked a lot sexier than the the Pontiac Goat ... I mean come on park one next to a Vette your car looks like a turd next to a Viper or Vette but it is as fast or faster with a few mods ...

This is how I plan to handle the situation. I purchased Pedders shocks and these springs .

Pedders GTO SR Rear Coil Drag
5/16" Raise 2589 and

Pedders GTO SR Front Coil HIGH
Raise 1" Pedders 7120

I got all of it at a great price ... in Florida ... much lower than old Mikey would have charged me. I am sure !!! Shop around folks ...

My car runs fine with the spring spacers .. but they are a band aids.

I bought some beefy 285-30-18 G-Force drag radials from a highschool kid off Craigs List .. new pair for $135 .. he paid $400 for them but I guess he needed the $$ more ...

When I burn the rubber off my back tires I will have the above springs installed and change out the shocks. That will give me one inch hight in the front 5/16" Raise in the back. I plan to run 245-40s-18 in the front. I want my back end to sit slightly lower with the big muscle car rubber sticking out letting the world know I am NOT driving an econo-car .... fk Obama and Gore global warming is a myth !!!

Since Mikey tells me the GM bushings are all **** I will take his word for it .. once Mr. $$ Green $$ shows up I may change them out. For now the factory bushings will have to do .. and I think they will be ok for the next 50,000 miles???

I tell you ... I live in Miami and I have seen only a few GTOs ... I saw one ... with the lowered springs ... it really looked like a mushroom ... cheap little rice burning econo box. These cars have a bad case of the uglies ... lowering them just makes them uglier ... If you want respect you have to put some big rubber in the back and loud Magna Flow exhaust ... hearders are always a plus. Oh don't tell the eco-friendly nut jobs ... but I go cat-less .. and only use my GTO off road
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Old 03-21-2009, 08:44 AM   #30 (permalink)
 
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Tire squat

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamgs View Post
Sorry, I lost track of this thread. I don't doubt that extra HP might cause more squat, and possibly rubbing.

I also seem to recall that the majority of strut rub issues and complaints were from '04 owners with the 17" wheels.

I have around 80K miles on mine, and the tire wear is always very even, so my alignment should be fine.

The tone of some of the replies to my post suggests that it may have been misinterpreted. I was not trying to slight anyone, or diminish the issues they were/are having. I just was stating my lack of strut rub issues with my relatively high mileage GTO as a point of reference.

Regards,

Gary
Gary,

Just because you might doubt that man decended from apes does not make false ... during the presidential innaguration I kept thinking how far .. man (ape) kind has progressed

Yes Gary your tires squat on aggressive excelleration ... the higher the HP the more the squat ... kinda sounds like your particular car has a hard time to get the front end to rise up ... you might try dropping some viagra in your gas tank ... as you may be suffering acceleration dysfunction ... so we can't really use your car as a "reference point"

As I mentioned in my post .. the 04 had the worst problems with 17 inch rims. I have 18 inch rims so logically the problem should be even worse. I had strut rub on the front tires ... and after modifications my back tires where shaved to the metal after 500 miles.

Now I understand that this has not happened to you ... under normal driving condition ... it may not happen to anyone ... but for those folks who actually like to drive "abnormally" like Steve McQueen in the classic 68 movie Bullitt .. well little things like hub rub and and strut rub ... can become an issue
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