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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
 
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1965 GTO Starter issue

Hello all. New member here looking for answer. A little history first. My GTO was sitting for about 5 years. This past September i brought it back to life. New battery. I always have it on a trickle charger when not running. Finally got car started, i could run it for a while, no problem. recently, i would turn off and try to start again and dead key. Nothing. Not a slow crank or anything. I believe I may have a heat soak issue that i believe can be quite common with a car with headers, like mine. Yesterday i have a put in a new starter and positive battery cable. Same issue. Odd thing is it will not start at all, even when it cooled off like it has before. Car started right up after starter swap. Heat barely got to 180 Degrees. i let car sit for a few hours and she wont start, dead key.
Please help as I am stumped and do not believe it is a starter or battery. I will be replacing the ground cable from the battery, just because its old. I find it odd that it will not start now at all even when its cold. Thanks in advance
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 09:49 AM
 
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I am no expert so pls keep the flames to a minimum. Years ago when I was a nighttime tow truck driver, I would get a no start call for a GM product. The boss said to do this. Have the driver turn on the headlights, then turn the key to the Start position. Look to see if the headlights dimmed. If not, then turn the headlights off. Dangerous part coming next. With the car in Park or Neutral (usually an automatic so Park), grab a hammer, crawl under the car and locate the starter. Now have the driver turn the key and hold in the Start position. Whack the starter with the hammer. Boom. Car starts. 9 times out of 10. Explanation was that solenoid was hanging up. I would advise the driver to park the car in an accessible place when they got home, as it would likely happen again. Assuming the new starter is a rebuilt, maybe this is the problem. You will get a hint just from the headlights. Another trick is to have someone hold the key over in the Start position and wiggle the battery cables to see if you get any reaction. Sometimes they corrode internally and you can't see it. Or I have unfortunately wasted your time. Good luck.
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
 
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No flames here. It is a new starter so i dont believe its stuck. 2 starters same problem. I suspect a wire is bad somewhere. Just need to find it
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 12:42 PM
 
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Try the headlight trick. No dimming means no current draw which means your wiring hunt should turn up the problem. BTW I replaced my '67 engine harness years ago with the Ram Air version as Ames said to use it if the car had headers. Mine has Hookers. The wire to the starter ran down the front of the engine, not the back. I also got a high torque mini starter and #2 battery cables. This solved the hot start problems. This part number for the '67 harness doesn't correspond to anything for 1965. For info only.
https://secure.amesperf.com/qilan/De...A&web_access=Y
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 02:22 PM
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BTDT many times with these cars. In my case it was never a starter problem. The problem was high resistance in the 'S' wire from the ignition switch to the solenoid. You can verify this by seeing if it cranks when you jump the S and B+ leads at the solenoid with a remote starter switch or a screwdriver. My bet is you have a bad S wire. Very, very common problem in these cars. You can replace the wire, or wire in a remote starter switch directly to the solenoid, leaving the original wires in place. That way, when it won't crank, just hit the back-up switch. Best solution is to replace the bad wire, though.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by geeteeohguy View Post
BTDT many times with these cars. In my case it was never a starter problem. The problem was high resistance in the 'S' wire from the ignition switch to the solenoid. You can verify this by seeing if it cranks when you jump the S and B+ leads at the solenoid with a remote starter switch or a screwdriver. My bet is you have a bad S wire. Very, very common problem in these cars. You can replace the wire, or wire in a remote starter switch directly to the solenoid, leaving the original wires in place. That way, when it won't crank, just hit the back-up switch. Best solution is to replace the bad wire, though.
Yup the dreaded purple wire.
I also replaced my engine loom with the HO loom but I also had to change the wire from the ign switch to the new loom.
I still get the chucka chucka once in awhile but if you snap the key quickly to start it doesn't do it.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-18-2016, 09:09 PM
 
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K...solid advice from the gang here. I am also familiar with the GM wiring of the era and the worst thing in the Pontiac was routing the starter wires through a metal tube inside the exhaust manifold!...a recipe for heat all the time. Not only that but the wiring really was insufficient for the amps drawn by the solenoid on top of the starter...about 50 amps.

Like the guys said, hot soak, purple starter wire etc, melts the insulation in that tube and it shorts out, with the car off just wiggle that starter cable that goes in the tube, it might move it off the short, try it a couple of times and then see if it works.

Real fix is what I just did with the stuff from MAD electronics, mounted a Ford Magnetic switch on the fender. Some call it a starter solenoid, but technically it is not. The you jumper the starter permanently, mad supplies the bus bar.

Then you reroute the battery cable wire as the only wire to the starter down the front past fuel pump along the oil pan. You put a bus bar on fire wall and near front headlights, with headlight relays as well.

Now when you turn the key you won't believe the difference, fires as a brand new car, full amps to starter, no heat soak worries. I put halogen headlights in and a 12 si alternator 78 amps instead of 63. The dash lights are brighter, because the headlights don't draw the power through the dash harness, and the cable to the starter is only live when cranking....no other time. Nothing goes though the metal tube.

The inside dome light will burn your retinas out, all systems full power. At 550 RPMs at idle in drive with high beams on, radio, blower still charges at 14.6 amps.

By the way I had put in a brand new wiring harness two years ago from American auto wire. Top quality....but that heat tube had melted the insulation on the starter S wire...it will eventually.

Talk to Mark at MAD electronics, he ran an auto electric shop for years....if you drive it and want super starts, power, strong lights etc...even easier to change the starter, one big cable.....that can carry all those amps!

Good luck!
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-19-2016, 09:12 AM
 
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If you hang around here long enough.....
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-19-2016, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
 
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Gentlemenn, thank you so very much. Due for a blizzard here in NJ this weekend so i can use that time to gather parts. I felt the "s" wire looked a bit suspect. I need to replace it its a great pkace to start. That tube where the starter cable runs was always a mystery to me. I may re route a few things.
Thanks again!!!
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 01-19-2016, 08:56 PM
 
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K...with the car off, move that wire up and down gently through the tube, if it is shorted on the tube and you move it off it may start...if not try a few times....if you use they MADE system the purple S wire is routed to the new Magnetic switch on the fender...not to the starter...there is more to it than that but you get the idea....if you stay with the S wire on starter you have to get it there somehow and extending it will add some small voltage drop, to an already weak design. But if you want it original you go down the tube!
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