I need help with a 1969 Pontiac 400 Engine!

gpm6367 · 02-19-2007, 08:14 AM

I am new to Pontiacs and am attempting to install a points dist in my 1969 Pontiac 400 in place of an HEI that had been installed. I brought engine around to #1 tdc (balancer line at 0) and wired firing order from there. I have not been able to get the car to run as it appears firing order is off even though I have triple checked everything.

My continued problems make no sense...so I double check the shop manual and the procedure for setting the dist IF dist removed and engine turned over...pull plug #1, crank engine until compression felt and bring the crank around to position in picture # whatever...but picture # whatever shows the balancer mark lined up with first mark on timing tab...12 degree btdc...it is crystal clear that balancer is NOT brought around to 0 mark on timing tab. That is contrary to every engine I ever worked on...Is this a Pontiac thing? Are there any engine builders who know? Please email me at caminosrule@aol.com. Thanks.
GM

lars · 02-19-2007, 11:27 AM

That's standard procedure on any engine - you bring it around to 12 degrees on the compression stroke and drop the distributor in. This gets your timing close, since the engine does not fire at 0.

You have to make sure you're on compression, since the engine can be at TDC and be on the exhaust stroke. Keep in mind that a Pontiac distributor rotates opposite a Chevy, so you need to have your plug wires running the opposite direction from other GM cars.

gpm6367 · 02-19-2007, 06:10 PM

I have opinions ranging from my balancer has moved to no compression due to worn rings, fuel wash and cold temp....Nothing makes sense except I am not at tdc...

So, after considering everything, I am beginning to think that since I bumped with starter, and not by hand, when it popped out my napkin on compression stroke, even though I had already shut key off, engine continued around...so I was not at tdc but 180 degree out...only thing that makes sense...it is too cold today but weather changing and 40s rest of week...I will disconnect all belts and crank by hand to tdc...thanks for your time.

GM

camcojb · 02-19-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpm6367

I have opinions ranging from my balancer has moved to no compression due to worn rings, fuel wash and cold temp....Nothing makes sense except I am not at tdc...

So, after considering everything, I am beginning to think that since I bumped with starter, and not by hand, when it popped out my napkin on compression stroke, even though I had already shut key off, engine continued around...so I was not at tdc but 180 degree out...only thing that makes sense...it is too cold today but weather changing and 40s rest of week...I will disconnect all belts and crank by hand to tdc...thanks for your time.

GM

as above said, you are wiring the distributor counter-clockwise, not clockwise, right?

Jody

05GTO · 02-19-2007, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpm6367

I have opinions ranging from my balancer has moved to no compression due to worn rings, fuel wash and cold temp....Nothing makes sense except I am not at tdc...

So, after considering everything, I am beginning to think that since I bumped with starter, and not by hand, when it popped out my napkin on compression stroke, even though I had already shut key off, engine continued around...so I was not at tdc but 180 degree out...only thing that makes sense...it is too cold today but weather changing and 40s rest of week...I will disconnect all belts and crank by hand to tdc...thanks for your time.

GM

Last fall after installing my distributor 180 degrees out I had flames and backfiring in the carburetor. Are you getting power to the plugs?

gpm6367 · 02-20-2007, 09:06 PM

I was really confident, after considering all things, that I had missed tdc...
So I get home as soon as possible and cant wait to get to garage...jet out after dinner, remove the #1 plug and stick in my paper towel, loosen the PS and Alt belts and put my breaker bar on the balancer, which has only one timing mark...I certainly have compression, as it seemed to take forever, fighting compression, cranking a 1/4 turn at a time from the floor until I finally popped out the paper towel. Beautiful...I bring it to 0 and am confident...pop the cap...THE F--KIN ROTOR IS IN THE SAME PLACE, WHERE IT SHOULD BE, AND NOT 180 DEGREES OUT!?!?WTF!?!?! And yes, I am running wires counter clockwise...

So now I can say with confidence it is not the firing order. I must start looking at, and replacing, other ignition components. As background, I not only replaced the HEI dist with a remanufactured distributor with points, but replaced the engine wiring harness, which had been butchered, the regulator, alternantor and coil (that is the only component not new or remanufactured). Can a coil work intermittently or does it just crap out? I assumed the points and condenser in dist are good, as it is a remanufactured dist, but who knows. I should probably swap out the used coil first. I also need to know if the condenser on the + side of coil could have anything to do with it...

Anyway, what do you think I should check, and in what order? The wire harness had no instructions...I have wiring diagram in shop manual...I can call the company that makes harness as they have a tech line...somone asked me about a ballast wire, but I dont know of one...
GM

05GTO · 02-20-2007, 10:14 PM

I've had little experience with coils and distributors and lars would be the best source. I'll attempt helping you with my limited knowledge.

Remove the condenser and check the voltage on the positive terminal of the coil when the switch is turned on. If you are reading around 12 volts, more than likely you will not have a ballast wire in your harness. You can pick up a ballast resistor from your parts store. I believe the voltage should be around 8 volts using a points setup.

Remove the tach and any other wires from the negative terminal of the coil, now see if you are getting spark to the plugs. If no spark check the output of the coil. If you have voltage from the coil check the points, rotor and cap.

I replaced my points and condenser with Crane Cam's XR-i Points To Electronic Ignition and removed my ballast resistor.

Sorry I can't be more help,

gpm6367 · 02-21-2007, 05:57 AM

Is it a wire or what appears as a condenser on the + side of my coil? I have only what appears to be a condenser on the + side of coil and nothing but dist feed on - side of coil. I keep hearing about this ballast resistor and am unaware of its function or wether I am missing it or not...

If I rotate dist clockwise (into its rotation) the car almost runs and will pop through carb so I know I have some spark...the question is how much and can it be interupted or intermitant so as to appear to be misfiring?

The order I will proceed as process of elimation is to a) remove condenser off coil and try it; b) swap out coil and try it; c) clean point contact surface and try it; d) swap out points and condenser in dist and try it. Beyond that, if it still does not start, I am clueless...HELP!
GM

05GTO · 02-21-2007, 06:34 AM

It will run without a ballast resistor and I believe the condenser is used to limit radio noise. I believe you are 180 degrees out. Pull the distributor rotate the rotor and reinsert the distributor.

Here is a picture of a ballast resistor, it is used to reduce the voltage into the coil on cars with points.

lars · 02-21-2007, 01:46 PM

Ballast resistor is not used on a '69. The '69 has a resistor wire integral in the wire harness.

The capcitor on the side of the coil is a radio suppression capacitor. It has no effect on the operation of the ignition system.