2 questions about my 69 restoration - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
 
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2 questions about my 69 restoration

1. I have an engine stand that bolts onto the block on one end and allows it to rotate, a typical engine stand. It's rated for 1000 pounds, my engine is 600 and change. I'm thinking about bolting on the transmission while the engine's in the stand. I'm thinking the added weight that far away from the pivot point might technically add more than the actual weight of the trans and break the stand. I've never seen an engine and a trans in one of those types of stands. It won't exceed 1000 pounds but it may be too much for the stand. Has anyone ever put an engine and trans in one of those stands?

2. I'm putting together a car I didn't take apart. I have these two parts that I'm not sure where they go. I'm hoping someone recognizes them.

thanks
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 02:15 PM
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Not sure what kind of engine stand you're using? Mine bolts to the bellhousing flange, so installing a transmission to the engine while on the stand would be impossible. Regardless though, you're right to be concerned about the leverage. I wouldn't try it myself. Seeing photos of your stand might help.

Those pieces are rear control arm mount braces. They go on the rear control arm front bolts and tie the upper mount to the lower mount. Their purpose is to provide support, mostly to the upper mounts on the crossmember, to help prevent ripping them out in cars that make power and have traction. Being of stamped steel, the factory units aren't as strong as some of the aftermarket pieces that are available.

I'm running these on my 69
1968-1972 GM A-Body Control Arm Reinforcements/Frame Braces [4028] - $119.99 : UMI Performance, Inc.

There are some photos near the bottom of that link that will show you where they go. I like them.

Bear

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 02:36 PM
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I'll add that it's much easier and safer to install the engine and trans individually and not bolted together. Much less stress on the cherry picker and much less likely to damage limbs or sheetmetal. I've done it both ways, and in pieces is best.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 09:53 AM
 
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2 questions about my 69 restoration

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Originally Posted by BearGFR View Post
Not sure what kind of engine stand you're using? Mine bolts to the bellhousing flange, so installing a transmission to the engine while on the stand would be impossible. Regardless though, you're right to be concerned about the leverage. I wouldn't try it myself. Seeing photos of your stand might help.

Those pieces are rear control arm mount braces. They go on the rear control arm front bolts and tie the upper mount to the lower mount. Their purpose is to provide support, mostly to the upper mounts on the crossmember, to help prevent ripping them out in cars that make power and have traction. Being of stamped steel, the factory units aren't as strong as some of the aftermarket pieces that are available.

I'm running these on my 69
1968-1972 GM A-Body Control Arm Reinforcements/Frame Braces [4028] - $119.99 : UMI Performance, Inc.

There are some photos near the bottom of that link that will show you where they go. I like them.

Bear
X2 what Bear said. I'm also running UMI Frame braces. Mine aren't installed yet so I can not attest to performance but comparing them side by side you see and feel the difference in quality. I also have UMI upper and lower control arms which also have that same feel and appearance over stock. Mine are tubular non adjustable. I got a great deal on my set but may move to adjustable down the road some time.


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1970 GTO 455HO Cardinal Red
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 09:56 AM
 
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2 questions about my 69 restoration

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Originally Posted by geeteeohguy View Post
I'll add that it's much easier and safer to install the engine and trans individually and not bolted together. Much less stress on the cherry picker and much less likely to damage limbs or sheetmetal. I've done it both ways, and in pieces is best.
You always see them install the motor and trans pre-mounted on the shows. Benefit of having 6+ guys helping, I guess.


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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
 
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The whole nose is off the car so dropping the engine and trans in together shouldn't be a problem. I"m doing it with my 11 year old son so instead of 6 guys I've got 1 1/2. I'm not worried.

I have a motor mount question. The pile of stuff that came with the pieces of the car includes 2 sets of motor mounts. One is used and could be the original. The other is unused but I notice while they're the same size, the sheet metal is a thinner gauge. So my choice is between a clearly superior product that may have 40 years of wear on it or the cheaper product that's new. I may see what I can get from O'Reilly.

If I have to find replacement bolts for either of the mounts I have, does anyone know if they are hardened steel or anything or can I just get whatever they have in the hardware store that fits?
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 05:13 PM
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Well, when I was reinstalling the engine and transmission into my 69, the entire front clip and core support were off the car. My son and I tried for a good hour or two to install them together and failed. The problem was we couldn't get the engine both high enough and rearward enough so that the ears on the motor mounts would drop down over the frame mounts. If we had the engine level and high enough to clear the frame mounts, the tranny hit the tunnel and we couldn't get it far enough back to drop down. If we tried tilting it to lower the tranny so we could get it farther back, something would always hit the firewall and we still couldn't get it far enough back. We tried everything we could think of, short of removing the mounts from the engine and trying to reinstall them after getting the engine positioned (which is I think the only way you could install engine/trans together). I'm pretty stubborn so we persisted for a good long while.

Once we gave up and split the two and installed them separately, we were done in like 20-30 minutes.

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 08:56 PM
 
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engine swap

When I installed the 455 into the '66, I dropped the whole shebang (engine & transmission together) in at one shot. Me alone. Front end was all assembled, hood was off. (Elderly neighbor came over and watched, never saw that done before). All said, took less than a half hour to the point where I was installing the cross member. The trick was to let it hang low at the tail, and lift it up and over the radiator support, Let her drop in to where I could get a dolly under the tail, let her down slow, and shoved her in. Piece of cake. HOWEVER, I would NOT do that again. Used a brand new lift, but that is A LOT of weight, and I was sweating bullets the whole time. I was tempting fate at all levels, and think I was very lucky. (Had an old post about this in the forum somewhere). Listen to Bear and Geeteeohguy, they won't steer you wrong- separate the transmission from the engine, and things should go without a hitch, SAFELY! Good luck! (P.S. having a handy helper to assist is a good idea) P.S.S. I always try to reuse as many original parts as possible, if they are in excellent condition-much better made than SOME cheesy aftermarket parts. (My 2c)
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-25-2013, 10:51 PM
 
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^^^^X4 - scary seeing a few grand of motor dangling on end and hoping up and down below it while trying to lower the car and motor at the same time by yourself. It;s also no positon you want to put your son in for his first venture at this for safety, profanity, and frustration reasons. The hobby is meant to be enjoyable, save yourself the wasted day. Before you get ready to drop the motor (alone), get the trans blocked up below the car in position tail a little low. The motor will drop in easily, an angle adjuster at your chain point will make life easier or just chain it tilted back it will all fall in place when you get the block pins lined up to the trans bell housing. One side note, if you are installing headers lay them in while you are lowering the motor, just make sure to check you do not pinch them on the frame rail. That way you can get them bolted up to the block while you have it raised a little out of the mounts and have a little more room and angle on the header bolts (PITA). Welcome to the forum, have at it, your son will love building that car with you and cherish it for the future.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-27-2013, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
 
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I'm not sure what problems others had but me and my 11 year old son had the motor and trans in the car and on the mounts in about 45 minutes. I can't say why I had better luck than Bear except there was a moment when it didn't seem to want to go in. I was ready to put my floor jack under the tail end of the trans to level it when the motor was in but at that point I decided to raise the front end instead. I left the bracket for the engine stand on but it could have been any solid attachment point on the front of the engine. I hooked my come along between the back of the hoist and the engine stand bracket and changed the angle by lifting the front of the engine. Inch by inch it went in and when it was in far enough, I released the come along, put the floor jack under the trans and gently lowered the engine. No 6 guys needed, just 1 1/2.
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