1971 lemans sport convertible 400ci t41 - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-21-2016, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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1971 lemans sport convertible 400ci t41

Hi all

Interesting combo of Pontiac options for sale out here in NJ. LeMans sport convert. 400ci with t41 (endura nose and Gto hood.

Asking $7700 or best. Has rust in usual spots. From pics it looks like #4 condition.
It is on e bay if anyone wants to take a look.
If I had money I would pick it up as a future project. Already have one heap (24 hours of lemons race project) in the driveway which is the wife's tolerance limit.

Just curious if anyone on the forum knows much about this model. Seller claims only 250 made.


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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-22-2016, 10:01 AM
 
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the seller is close on production numbers, but the number will be quite a bit less, as on the lower horse LeMans Sport converts, there were more chrome front bumper cars built.

Here are totals for '71 Sport converts (via Fred Simmonds official tabulations in '89).

3578: 350 2bbl

220: 400 2bbl & 400 4bbl
.....59 of the 400 4bbls had manual transmission

50: L75 455 Dport code YC

11: LS5 455HO M13 hd 3 speed & M22
06: LS5 Turbo 400
------
3865 total '71 LeMans Sport convert

Of note:
-all '71 LeMans Sport converts and '71 GTO converts were built at Pontiac MI.
-all 400 2bbls and 455 Dports came with turbo 400's.
-highest collector value 400 Sports will be factory 400 4 bbl manual trans cars.
-the M22 is very rare on a 400 4spd convert LeMans Sport.
-of the 17 factory built LS5 '71 LeMans Sport converts, documentation has been recovered on 11, and so far, all had the T41 nose option.
-The T41 nose option was a mid year addition on '71 LeMans Sports and the '71 LeMans wagons. The intro of the '71 T41 nose option is in a similar time frame as the discontinuation of the Judge option, and the discontinuation of the '71 GTO convertible.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 01:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinion head View Post
the seller is close on production numbers, but the number will be quite a bit less, as on the lower horse LeMans Sport converts, there were more chrome front bumper cars built.

Here are totals for '71 Sport converts (via Fred Simmonds official tabulations in '89).

3578: 350 2bbl

220: 400 2bbl & 400 4bbl
.....59 of the 400 4bbls had manual transmission

50: L75 455 Dport code YC

11: LS5 455HO M13 hd 3 speed & M22
06: LS5 Turbo 400
------
3865 total '71 LeMans Sport convert

Of note:
-all '71 LeMans Sport converts and '71 GTO converts were built at Pontiac MI.
-all 400 2bbls and 455 Dports came with turbo 400's.
-highest collector value 400 Sports will be factory 400 4 bbl manual trans cars.
-the M22 is very rare on a 400 4spd convert LeMans Sport.
-of the 17 factory built LS5 '71 LeMans Sport converts, documentation has been recovered on 11, and so far, all had the T41 nose option.
-The T41 nose option was a mid year addition on '71 LeMans Sports and the '71 LeMans wagons. The intro of the '71 T41 nose option is in a similar time frame as the discontinuation of the Judge option, and the discontinuation of the '71 GTO convertible.
I know this is an older post, but I am hoping you may be monitoring it and be able to help me out with a production number or at least a guestimate. I have a 1971 Lemans Sport convertible, T41, hood tach, M22 and then, what is giving me fits trying to figure out, is it has a 350 2 barrel. This car has been in my family since (almost) new, but purchased new by a close friend of the family. It is an unmolested factory original car. None of these are dealer added. Easy to tell w/ the hood tach because the cut out has a finished edge to it. I contacted PHS and they had no info on production #'s.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 02:35 PM
 
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From all that has ever been recorded, a Pontiac 350 2bbl engine could not be combined with an M22 HD Muncie as an option. In PontiacLand, the M22 was optional behind 400 4-bbl & 455HO engines for only two model years...'71 & '72 & the M22 was extremely rare in 400 4bbl A bodys. It would be very interesting to note what your original build sheet has in the transmission & driveshaft boxes. The car being a convertible, will mean it was built out of Pontiac home plant, & the only place I've ever found an original Pontiac plant build sheet is between the carpet & the carpet underpayment on the passenger side of the floor hump. The original build sheet was uncovered in that spot on my HO Coupe T-37 & I know of a few '71 GTO's that also had their original buildsheet in similar spot. Note the Pontiac plant style build sheet is the small style build sheet, & if the car was factory carpeted, the resin from the tar type underlayment often darkened the build sheet, & it will have to be carefully cleaned by carefully soaking in a shallow bath of lacquer thinner.

For '71 model T-37's through LeMans Sports, the 350 2bbl came with a column shifted Saginaw 3spd standard. If one ordered a '70 1/2, '71, or '71 1/2 GT-37, the standard engine was the Pontiac 350 2 bbl, & the HD Muncie 3speed was used, along w a Hurst floor shifter. Same HD Muncie 3spd was standard equipment in a '70-72 GTO.

A 4speed was avail optionally behind the 350 2bbl, during the early 70's, but it was an M20 wide ratio Saginaw. Have owned several Saginaw 4spds out of rusty '71-73 72 Pontiac A-body's that I've parted. For about 6 years beginning in the late '80's I ran the national GT-37 Survey, advertising the survey in GTOAA "Legend" & POCI "Smoke". Since those early beginnings have recorded info on over eight hundred '71 & 71 1/2 GT-37's, of which the vast majority were 350 2 bbl cars.
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Last edited by Pinion head; 01-31-2017 at 02:46 PM.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-11-2017, 09:28 AM
 
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That is all good info, thank you. I do love detail in a response. As of now, it definately is a M-22, w/ 350 2barrel, and knowing the past owners I do believe it to be original, but I know icecubes in antarticta are worth more than what I believe on this subject. I have a small stack of papers that came with the car, in the glove box, MAYBE the build sheet is in there. The floors were redone in the early 1980's, so I am not holding my breath on the one under the carpet still being there. I heard there may be a second build sheet above the gas tank, and for the life of me, I can not recall if trunk was done when the floors were. Thank you for taking the time to respond. When I finally get the car up in the air and get to crawl around and compare numbers, I will let you know what I find, great and confusing or just good!
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-11-2017, 09:41 PM
 
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A 350 with a 2 barrel carb does not make a lot of sense to have an M-22 as original to production . Doesn't even sound like it would be an order option. My guess was it was changed with a transmission that was accessible to the owner. Just my two cents.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-12-2017, 10:32 AM
 
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At this point, anything is possible. I seem to recall hearing (in 1978 when my Brother bought the car) the original owner traveled alot for work, wanted the 350 for economical reasons. The problem with that statement is the gearing in this car is incredibly rediculous. I seem to recall riding with my bro on the interstate at 65-70 mph and thinking we had to be close to 3,000 rpm. By comparison today, my old Denali is at 1900/70 mph. As I stated, I think I know the story, but, it is the story I was told by my brother and his friend John, nephew of the original owner. I have nothing but memories to go on. I will share my findings. Maybe the factory trans scattered and this was the "agreed upon" service replacement? I really don't know until I get my butt under and look at numbers and see if the build sheet survived. But I do want to thank everyone for all their replies. I don't believe it is possible to have too much info.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-12-2017, 10:51 AM
 
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bandit, when you contacted PHS, did you purchase a PHS packet with a copy of invoice in it? If so what does the invoice state for options?
Have you looked at the passenger side of the transmission case on the flat edge right before where the tail housing attaches. This is where the Pxxxx Muncie date code is stamped. There is also a partial VIN stamped right next to the Pxxxx code.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-12-2017, 01:44 PM
 
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I contacted PHS through email only, and not knowing what to ask, I now feel I may have asked the wrong question. I inquired about providing production numbers by drive train/ color in their packet etc... Their response was they do not list production numbers, so I kind of dropped it at that point. I have not dealt with them before, I really don't even know for sure what your money gets you and how accurate their info is. I have heard 2 different stories that you get a detailed list, and an available list that COULD be on your car. I am not meaning to sound sceptical, ok, maybe a little. Thank you for the info on where to look on the housing, All I knew was pass side somewhere. Currently, the car is in my garage on 4 flat tires. I was able to see enough to verify the M22 is at least there. I will see if I can get under it enough to maybe see the numbers. It is pretty tight.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-12-2017, 07:24 PM
 
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My son and I jacked it up and looked, had to scrape about a 1/4 of crud off the case with my phenolic scraper and wiped it down with denatured alcohol. The numbers match. I even found most of the build sheet, but it is rough.
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  Pontiac GTO Forum > The 1964-1974 Pontiac Tempest, Lemans & GTO > 1964-1974 Tempest, Lemans & GTO General Discussion

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