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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-25-2014, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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65 GTO Question

I am looking to potentially purchase a 4-speed 1965 GTO. It appears to have a WS Engine by the WS marking. However I am told by the seller who isn't the original owner that he was told the car came with a 4bbl carb, 4-speed, and WS engine. It was converted to Tripower now. I am questioning if the car came from the factory with a 4bbl. I thought all WS engines were tripower from the factory. True or not?? Poocher
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-25-2014, 06:31 PM
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True, at least in 1965 and 1966. In 1967 and later, a WS was a 4 speed, High Output engine with a 4bbl. If you are serious, you need to order the PHS docs on the car and determine the block casting number and date code. It may be a '67 on up block. PHS is the only sure way of determining how your car was originally built. If you have the original protect-0-plate, the engine number and code will be on that. Not uncommon for engines to be swapped in these cars, especially with a manual trans. Many did not survive the first decade of abuse. My own tripower '65 GTO had its WS block destroyed in the '70's at the strip. It's been running a correct date, but WT code 4bbl block since the early '80's. Of all the GTO's I've owned, none of the stickshift cars had their original engines, and these were only 10-15 year old cars at the time. All of the automatic GTO's I've owned had their original block intact. Again, Get the PHS. Cheap insurance. You can verify the car is a real GTO, real 4 speed, etc. Keep us updated!
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 01:10 AM Thread Starter
 
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65 GTO Question

Thanks for the reply. I am getting the PHS docs. So you think buyers could have gotten a 4bbl on a WS Engine. Literature seems to only say that WS was with a tripower. Sort of confusing. Paul.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 01:13 AM Thread Starter
 
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65 GTO Question

I'm sorry, I read your reply again and you say it is true that WS engines only came with Tripower in 65. Wonder why the car I am looking at had a 4bbl carb before the latest owner put a tripower on it???
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 11:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by poocher View Post
Thanks for the reply. I am getting the PHS docs. So you think buyers could have gotten a 4bbl on a WS Engine. Literature seems to only say that WS was with a tripower. Sort of confusing. Paul.
they just have different cams.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-27-2014, 09:18 AM
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Paul, wait until you get the PHS to see if the car was actually a tripower car. As I stated earlier, it could very well be a replacement engine in your car, which happens to be a WS code engine. Back in the day, nobody cared about engine codes and used whatever decent engine or core they could get. The only reason my '65 GTO even has a '65 GTO engine in it is because a buddy had it and it was $150 at the time. Also, I have seen real tripower GTO's that were switched to 4bbl on the misconception that the car would be more economical. So until you get the PHS, it's only speculation.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-28-2014, 04:49 PM
 
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first you posted about a '65 your thinkin of buying n concerned about what the car rolled off the assembly line with. the current owner hasn't had the car already documented? your going send out to p.h.s. for someone elses car? now your looking at a out of car motor trying to identify? does it really matter originally 4bbl. or tri-power? you know how much time has gone by? be happy with period correct. many '64 n '65 gtos were swapped back n forth. some by Pontiac dealers. does that make it an undesirable car? hell no. and if someone wants to make a 4bbl. car tri-power, go for it. theres no shame in that, despite comments ive read on this topic.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the replies. I have found that most 65 GTOs don't have the original motors in them. So the one I am looking at which has a 4 year ago restoration seems fine. It has a 1968 400cu, 350 XH motor w/tripower. I am getting the phs docs but as for the engine I guess that matters little.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-03-2014, 11:01 AM
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It depends. If the car is priced in the 20-25k range and is a decent driver, and you want a driver car to enjoy, it matters very little. If the car is in the 35k and up range, it matters a lot, as original motor cars command a premium. Paying 30k up for a car with a non original motor would be questionable unless the rest of the car's condition justifies it. Jim Wangers once told me that the original block in a garden variety GTO (he was looking at my '67 at the time) was worth 10k. So, if you can get the '65 of your dreams but with the 'wrong' motor for 25k or so and have a nice solid driver, great.
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