checking a Judge - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-28-2013, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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checking a Judge

Need help to check authenticity of a Judge I'm planning to go see tomorrow. It appears in pics to be overall driver quality, pretty solid steel and mostly complete but NOM. It is a RA3 car with a 455 now. Supposedly has correct exhaust manifolds, carb and RA4 engine (not likely a true RA4 but said to have the RA4 intake).

I would be looking for a driver car and one I can improve along the way. I need tips on how to verify it's a real Judge and also a real orbit orange car. I am not a Pontiac guy so I need all the help. It's also a Canadian built car. No paperwork on hand (maybe a piece of the build sheet?)

Price is low 20s.

Any help at all please.

Thanks,
OO
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-28-2013, 05:42 PM
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The only proper way to verify its authenticity is to have the PHS on it. Proper RA/IV engine, If its a manual it will be a WW block or an XP if auto. RA/III Coded: YZ Automatic or WS for Manual.... The codes will be by the water pump. That is all mute if there's a 455 in it.

You can reference engine codes here: http://www.gtoalley.com/engcodens.html

You make no mention of the year...

I assume it's a 1970. Orbit Orange was only a 1970 color brought out mid year. The date of the build would indicate if it's original Orbit as well based on the timeline of the color introduced in that model year. If it's any other year its not the original color.

Low 20's?? Red Flag...

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-28-2013, 10:15 PM
 
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I wouldn't even think of buying something like that without spending the $65 for the PHS documentation.
I think they will even fax you a rapid reply for an extra $15.

PHS Historic Services

They don't offer any on-line or electronic services as far as I know, so you might have to wait a couple of days.

For this car, I would wait...

Good luck!!!

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1983 Pontiac Bonneville (G) wagon
2008 Pontiac G8 base

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-28-2013, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
 
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Sorry about the year. Yes it is a 70. Supposed to be a RA3 car.

I don't know much about it so far but will start investigating once I see it and get the VIN and any other numbers I can gather. The seller said the Canadian build documentation was somewhat better than US built cars. We will see and I will order the PHS if truly interested. Why is low 20s a red flag?
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-29-2013, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by original orbit View Post
Sorry about the year. Yes it is a 70. Supposed to be a RA3 car.

I don't know much about it so far but will start investigating once I see it and get the VIN and any other numbers I can gather. The seller said the Canadian build documentation was somewhat better than US built cars. We will see and I will order the PHS if truly interested. Why is low 20s a red flag?
Why? Because a Judge in reasonably good shape as you describe will command 30K+. Low 20's is the range of a decent GTO would go for. To see a Judge in the low 20's, unless the owner doesn't know what he has that range is awfully low. Despite the engine not being correct the car being real in driver shape would be worth more. If the car is as advertised and real, and in good driver shape, you may have one heck of a deal, but be leery and proceed with caution.

The VIN alone will not tell you if it's a Judge, you'll need documentation from PHS. I don't know if Canadian documentation is any better than from factory, but you stated there is no documentation for this car, just a piece of the build sheet, right?

The PHS is your safeguard in knowing what you have. To speed the process up, after paying the required fee, you can have the info faxed to you and review it.

Good luck, take pics of it and share....and keep us updated.

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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-29-2013, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
 
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OK< I went to see the car and have the VIN so I can get the PHS. Here are bunch of random shots I took. The paint is beat. Poor preparation, bubbling, a 20 footer. But it could be driven. Interior looks mostly original but another guy looking said the dash was from a 72. It needs to be redone. Engine is NOM but the carb is right. 7040273 date 2959

None of the driveline matches. Paint code is 0606 which created a lot of discussion with some GTO guys that also showed up. Canadian built paint code is supposed to be Orbit Orange?

70 Judge Photos by gccch | Photobucket
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-29-2013, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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Just got a call it was sold for 21.5k. I guess someone that knew what they were doing arrived before I could figure it out. Thanks anyway guys.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-29-2013, 03:14 PM
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Gonna need a lot of work but if its the real deal someone got a deal.

That 1972 dash, they are in hot demand, they are not reproduced and hard to find. The embossed "Pontiac" on the right above the glove box was a 1972 only year. That could be swapped out and some $$ made on that if its in good shape.

My '70 has a '72 dash in it too, it's all but mint condition. Maybe.........

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-29-2013, 04:10 PM
 
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good deal if it's a judge, but still close to 60K in it by the time its done.

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  Pontiac GTO Forum > The 1964-1974 Pontiac Tempest, Lemans & GTO > 1964-1974 Tempest, Lemans & GTO General Discussion

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