just bought 69 gto believe to be ram air - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
 
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just bought 69 gto believe to be ram air

I just bought a 69 gto that has all the ram air air cleaner assembly(sitting in the trunk and plate on hood still), hood tach. disc brakes and four speed trans still in car, hide away headlights.
I sent off for the phs docs, so hopefully will know more soon. the car hasn't been on the road since the late 80's-early 90's.
The motor is gone. I'm trying to research what is actually the correct motor and head casting numbers. I've spent hours googling it and have read about a million different things. I believe the correct motor #'s are 9790071. and the heads are 48's?? Car was originally gold with black vinyl top and interior. 2nd question is what is some opinion's on what it is worth. needs trunk pan, floors have rust but not gone. Of course needs quarters and wheel housings. Interior is not bad but should be redone to be nice. the rest of the car is not to bad.
Thanks,Tyson
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
 
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I believe it is a ram air III
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 07:32 PM
 
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Block will be an "071", 2 bolt capped '69 400. Heads will be 48's. Earliast dated "69 usage WS's and YZ's, I've across all had mid Oct to early Nov dates on original blocks/heads/intake manifold. 3 different part number distributors were used, many documented early WS's and YZ's had the "1941". From examining many original program built Judges, the Pontiac engine plant cranked it up strong and many many early assembled RAIII engines were stockpiled, then made it into program content Judges and even into a few mid March and early April built non program Judges.

Value wise, hard to say without more info, of course, such a roller will be worth many times more as a nightmare project, needing extenive metal work, if the invoice copy comes back from PHS as a Judge. What color and body build week does cowl tag denote? What part of the country are you in? Know of numerous '69 400 4spd GTO projects that friends have sold or traded in the last 6-8 months... certain areas of the country extensive projects are ongoing, several other areas, lot of negativity about taking on projects.

Last edited by Pinion head; 04-08-2015 at 07:47 PM.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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I'm in Iowa. everything up here is rusty!!lol I don't consider this car major work as I have done WAY worse.
trim tag is
st69 24237 bal543098bdy
tr 258 65 b pnt
1 B B 099792

Thanks for the input!!
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 07:58 PM
 
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Garage
It may or may not be a Ram Air III car and the PHS documents will be the way to confirm this.

Seeing the original engine is not with the car, the block number really does not matter. The '69 engines were stamped with the last 9 digits of the cars vin -so it can't be replaced. Block code was "WS". Again, not really something you need to pay top dollar for just to say you have the "WS" code block that is not Vin stamped. The next thing is that you would have to also match your date codes cast into all parts to match the build date of your car. So this would present a tough search and top dollars paid out -if you could find it all.

The correct head casting number for a manual trans RAIII is "48".

To put a price on any car is tough whether "as is" or "finished." Its been said many times, "Its only worth what someone will pay for it." As is, the car sounds rough and will need extensive sheet metal work (will all the lower areas rotted out, how is the frame?). Vinyl roof -most likely you will find rot along the lower vinyl around the rear window glass. Lower front windshield channel is another sore spot. It'll need a replacement engine. No doubt you will need to rebuild the front suspension, rear suspension, brake system, and whatever interior items it needs. This car sounds like it is in need of a complete frame-off, or close to it.

Personally, I see a big project with a big investment. Is it worth it? IF it turns out to be an original RAIII car, the value will not increase much as the engine is the value in that car. So your next option is to rebuild/restore the car to a stock configuration OR do a "resto-mod" which allows you to put your influence on the car -basically restoring the outer body and putting your spin on the drivetrain, interior, wheels/tires, etc..

The more work you can do, the more you save. If you have to farm out all your work, then your investment will go way up. If you do have someone do most of the work, then in my opinion, you will find you have more into it than what you can sell it for -IF you plan on selling it. When you begin to weigh the amount of work and costs to restore/rebuild your project, you may find that it was more cost effective to purchase outright a turn-key car that you can enjoy "now" and not years from now. But, if you are like many of us, it is the joy and satisfaction of working on and rebuilding your own ride even if it costs a boat load of cash and takes many years to complete. It's about accomplishment and the ownership of that accomplishment that really makes you feel proud of your car, however perfect or imperfect it turns out.

That said, I would not get too pumped thinking it is a cash cow because it may have been a RAIII car. The engine, the most vital part, is gone. To reproduce it will never get back the original engine and will never command a selling price an original numbers matching car would. The costs to attempt to gather all the matching/date coded parts would be hard to assemble and expensive. You would be better to invest wiser in a different approach on your engine of choice. With all that it needs in its rebuilding, there is a better than probable chance that you will be upside down on the car and selling it may see a loss to you. If you build it to keep and "will yourself to be buried in it", then what monies or time you put into it don't really matter.

This is not discouragement, just my honest opinion.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hi, thanks for the input. I can do about 90% of the work myself so the investment is more in time than money. I would like to bring it " close to original/correct". I know that it will never be numbers matching, only somewhat "correct" Frame is very solid. I agree to really be done right it should be a frame off restoration, but it could be cleaned up, body work done and made into a "driver" for a lot less money and headache. I just think that would be a waste. I am debating on just selling it as is though. To be honest if I can make a little money. I have other cars going on that I really should be finishing up. I just stumbled onto this car so I grabbed it. I think it would be a really cool car to restore though. Thanks again
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 09:19 PM
 
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with 01B Baltimore build, 65 B (antique gold, black vinyl top), we know its not going to be a Judge. I'd wait for the PHS, good chance it could come back a WT 400 car, which an early owner picked up a RA set-up along the way. Throw that out, as started buying factory RA pieces, options, trinkets in the early 80's. Before the first Musclecar revival phase hit, and many of us of started Hemmings ads, many RA pans and tubs traded word of mouth through local sources, with many owners adding RA to their cars.

On restoring it as a non original engine GTO, you know your capabilitys, and what you can find locally big parts wise (say you need a roof) the repro full 1/4's are really good other than the shape of where the junction of the repro quarter meets the catwalk...that will need work. As a project, parts wise, complete hideaway with a straight, untwisted, uncooked endura nose is good. Light rust out fenders can be properly fixed, then definitely some value there, that's the only fenders I'll use on a '68 or 69. Total rot-out fenders along with bad doors and rusty floors... looking at a rough roller, much lower value and interest out there if intent is to sell quickly. What's the dash like? black interior plastic nice, or rough scraped up, needing replacement? Are bucket seatcores decent builders, or have windows been down forever? I'd ck the rearend too, if it's the cars original 3.90 HD STT, or even a clean 3.55 STT, the whole project is much more interesting and marketable. Hope this helps.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-12-2015, 12:48 PM
 
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69 GTOOwner

My VIN is: 242379A109784
Engine Block is: 0290604 YS

Question: New to this game, not matching, correct? Is the engine correct for this model? What do I look for on tranny numbers?

Please help me

Thanks, Glen at: [email protected]
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 1gmcphegl View Post
My VIN is: 242379A109784
Engine Block is: 0290604 YS

Question: New to this game, not matching, correct? Is the engine correct for this model? What do I look for on tranny numbers?

Please help me

Thanks, Glen at: [email protected]
Glen,

The YS block was used from 65 thru 74 on the GTO models, your block should have a casting number behind the #8 cylinder of 9790071, 68 and 69 both used the same casting number, to tell the difference, 68 had the 8 bolt water pump and 69 had the 11 bolt water pump. Also the date code is located on the machined pad next to the distributor. On the front of the block vertically next to the timing chain cover there should be a vin number that matches your vehicle vin number.

Randy


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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 09:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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Got the phs docs today. The car is a ram air III.
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