Need help with pulley problem - Pontiac GTO Forum
User Tag List

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-24-2012, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas City,Mo
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to mikey gto
Need help with pulley problem

I am putting the correct motor in my 67 but adding vintage air.When I got the motor there were no pulleys or harmonic balancer.I found a 3 grove lower pulley and put it on but it does not line up with the pulley on the water pump.the water pump pulley needs to come out about 1in to line up.has anyone had this problem ? I hope that the timeing cover is the correct one,The # on it is 9783130 water pump#39018-75 block#107353 ws.Do they make a water pump with a longer shaft ?
mikey gto is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-24-2012, 09:38 PM
Super Moderator
 
BearGFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Springtown, TX
Posts: 5,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Garage
Man oh man have I ever been here....

Short version: Pontiac pulleys have to be a matched set and there were several different styles used over the years. Check either your water pump pulley or the crank pulley and see if there are part numbers stamped into them. If so, post them back to me and I can look them up in the parts book and tell you what you need to match.

Have you installed your a/c compressor yet and if so, does it line up with the groove on the crank pulley that's closest to the engine? If so, and if the crank pulley clears your balancer ok, then what you need to do is keep that one and then find the water pump pulley that matches it.

Let me know...

Bear

BearGFR
Springtown, TEXAS
BearGFR is offline  
post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-24-2012, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas City,Mo
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to mikey gto
Have not put the compressor on yet,I just got the 3 grove pulley from Phillips muscle car parts out of Tulsa for the small sum of 245.00 He told me it came off a 67.Should I call him and see if he has the water pump pulley ? I have a water pump off of a 70 model pontiac 350 motor and the shaft is about 1in longer and looks like it would line everything up but it will not fit on my timeing cover
mikey gto is offline  
 
post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-24-2012, 09:59 PM
Super Moderator
 
BearGFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Springtown, TX
Posts: 5,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey gto View Post
for the small sum of 245.00
Whoa! Man you can get a complete set of Ram Air Restoration billet aluminum pulleys (either natural finish or black anodized) for $329 and that includes pulleys for the crank, water pump, p/s, and alt.

Here's what I'd do: go ahead and mount your compressor and see if it lines up correctly with the crank pulley you have. If it does, then you know you'll need to match everything else up with that. If not, then we'll need to figure out which crank pulley you need to make it line up, or you'll have to modify that a/c compressor bracket system to make it line up - your choice. I can show you how to make a tool to check alignment if you don't already have something.

Bear

BearGFR
Springtown, TEXAS
BearGFR is offline  
post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-24-2012, 10:46 PM
 
leeklm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I do believe the water pump did get longer around 70 or 71. When i purchased my pump, i was asked if it was a short or long pump...

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using AutoGuide.Com Free App
leeklm is offline  
post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-25-2012, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas City,Mo
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to mikey gto
Did if fit on your stock 67 housing ok ?
mikey gto is offline  
post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-25-2012, 07:24 AM
Super Moderator
 
BearGFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Springtown, TX
Posts: 5,737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeklm View Post
I do believe the water pump did get longer around 70 or 71. When i purchased my pump, i was asked if it was a short or long pump...
Actually no, not really - what did happen was that for part of model year 1969 the A-body cars (GTO, Lemans, etc.) used a water pump that had a snout that was 1/2" -shorter- than everything else. That oddball pump was discontinued part way through the 69 model year and all the cars went back to using a standard snout pump. That caused some issues with water pump replacement after Pontiac discontinued the short snout pumps, so what they did was to create yet another different water pump pulley for use whenever a standard snout pump was installed on a car that originally had a short snout pump. The "deeper" water pump pulley kept all the belts in alignment after the swap out.

To figure out which pump you have, measure from the front of the flat surface on the back of the pump where the gasket sits to the front of the flat surface on the front of the hub where the pulley sits. If it's 4 1/2" it's a standard ("long") pump. If it's 4 " it's a "short" pump.

Trust me - I went through all kinds of pain trying to get the belts aligned on my 69, that's why I know about this stuff. My 69 was an early production car so it had a "short" snout pump originally. I replaced it with an aftermarket aluminum high-flow pump, which of course has a standard length snout. So there's problem #1. Problem #2 was introduced by the SFI-rated harmonic balancer I'm running that doesn't have the leading edge chamfer the allows the a/c compressor to fit "around" it, so I couldn't use my original crank pulley set. Problem #3 came from the aftermarket a/c system I'm running that wanted me to use a funky super-long alternator belt to drive the compressor instead of using the normal a/c compressor drive pulley on the rear of the crank stack. Problem #4 was when I converted to a later model, higher capacity p/s pump in order to have enough "oomph" to handle both the steering and my hydroboost brake system, and of course the later model pump has a different pulley and depth from my original factory p/s pump pulley. So starting with this already mish-mash Frankenstein arrangement I had to figure out how to 1) find crank pulleys that would fit the balancer 2) move the a/c compressor mount rearward so it would run off the right pulley and 3) get all the other accessories/belts to line up.

Here's how you're going to have to go about solving your problems:
1) Measure your water pump and figure out if it's a standard length snout (4 1/2") or a short snout (4"). If you find you have a short snout pump, you may very well eventually be forced to swap it for a standard pump in order to get everything to line up right just because the short pump only has 1 or 2 pulleys that will work on it and also line up with everything else, and they can be hard to find. Running a short pump also severely limits your options on replacement once it needs replacing.
2) Take a good look at your crank pulley set, especially the a/c drive pulley. If it sort of fits 'around' the outer edge of the balancer (i.e. if the balancer had a larger diameter the pulley wouldn't clear it) then your crank pulley set could be one for a "short snout" pump car. (Get the stamped part number off it to be sure). You have to "choose" the crank pulley you're going to run first because this one has the least amount of "adjustability" to it, then you have to match everything else up with the crank pulley.
3) Mount your a/c compressor and do whatever you have to in order to get it to line up properly with the a/c drive pulley on the crank.
4) Using the crank pulley part number, figure out what water pump pulley part number is needed to be compatible with it and with your water pump.
5) If you have to, fiddle with the mounting brackets on your other accessories (alt and p/s) to bring them into correct belt alignment.

Here's a couple of photos showing the pulley alignment checking tool I made. It's a verified straight piece of aluminum bar. I cut a couple of curved notches into it so that when I set one of the notches down into a pulley groove, the edges of the notches "ride" on the sides of the pulley and cause the tool to align itself with the center of the groove. Then I move it around to "point" at the other pulley I want to check alignment with. If the two are lined up, the other end of the bar will also be sitting in the dead center of the other pulley. (In the photos I still have the belts on, but to actually use the tool the belts have to be off)




Bear

BearGFR
Springtown, TEXAS

Last edited by BearGFR; 05-25-2012 at 08:44 AM.
BearGFR is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Pontiac GTO Forum > The 1964-1974 Pontiac Tempest, Lemans & GTO > 1964-1974 Tempest, Lemans & GTO General Discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Pontiac GTO Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
66/67 pulley sizes danthepontiacman 1964-1974 Tempest, LeMans & GTO Technical and Electrical Wiring 0 01-26-2012 01:10 PM
U/D Pulley Belts KroBeast13 2004-2006 GTO General Discussion 0 04-06-2011 06:01 AM
1965 389/421 pulley VettenGoat 1964-1974 Tempest, LeMans & GTO Technical and Electrical Wiring 5 07-10-2008 09:10 AM
05-06 Underdrive Pulley??? LS2~N~BLUE Engine Discussions 1 05-27-2006 07:52 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome