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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-07-2015, 04:57 AM Thread Starter
 
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So I have to be honest. I never cared much for the GTO. Then I saw this History Channel documentary on the car and changed my mind. I wanted a 64 or 65 because the lines were more straight. And by the dumbest luck, I stumbled onto a 64 Convertible. So I drove a day and a half to get to the damn place. When I finally got to the car I could not believe what the lady had. This car was nearly all original. Never had body work on it, original top, original shocks, glass, mufflers, I mean almost everything. Except the engine, heads, and exhaust mainifolds.

Now the crap part is I did not realize how hard parts are to find for this thing. I normally would not have cared if parts were original but everyone who sees the car tells me how rare the thing is and that I should keep it as close to original as i can.The front hood has a crease in it and I would like to replace it but it is hard to find a replacement. I found an engine block with the correct date code and cast number. I plan to have it decked and restamped to match the PHS for it. But can not find 9770716 heads for it.

So begins my fustration with the pontiacs. I must have ordered at least 4 phs on different cars but they all came back as plain lemans. On the 5th I got a good hit. But what I noticed is there was no consistancy between where the cars were made. Even the fremont factory stamped the cowl plated differently between night and day shift. Some had the 5n most do not.

So anyway I need to get 20 posts on here before I ask or post for the parts. So please bear with me and these posts.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-07-2015, 10:04 AM
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Nice find!
I was trying to find a '67-'68 steering wheel but the ones on Fleabay were worse than mine and the recaster I contacted wanted 12 hundred bucks.
I am in the process of restoring it, it is filled and primed and ready for paint.
It took me awhile to find the stock 6" water pump pulley but I did located one.
Go to Frank's Pontiac site, see what he has and check his links page.
A lot of these guys are old skool that have these parts and don't do the net so you have to play by their rules and get on the phone.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-07-2015, 10:12 AM
 
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What makes do you have experience with? I would bet most of us are just used to the parts situation, but if you're coming from, say, Chevy, I can imagine the shock.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-07-2015, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ibarbuckle View Post
What makes do you have experience with? I would bet most of us are just used to the parts situation, but if you're coming from, say, Chevy, I can imagine the shock.
I walked the entire Pomona Swap meet and there were tons of Chevy and Ford parts, the only Pontiac stuff was a tach and a vacuum gauge.
I was looking for an oil pan and could have bought dozens of them for Chevys, not one for a Pontiac.
I walked the classic cars for sale, Impalas, woodies even a stretch '59 Caddy but not one GTO.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-07-2015, 11:38 AM
 
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tonyskala, So your finding out that many of the cars you are looking at that you think are GTOs are not. Don't add to that misconception by stamping an engine block code that is not correct. Some future owner will think they have the original engine to the car when it is not (because of you).
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-07-2015, 11:45 AM
 
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"And by the dumbest luck, I stumbled onto a 64 Convertible."

-GTO?

"So begins my fustration with the pontiacs. I must have ordered at least 4 phs on different cars but they all came back as plain lemans."

-The '64-'65 GTO was an option on the Lemans and not a separate model, thus the Lemans.

"I found an engine block with the correct date code and cast number. I plan to have it decked and restamped to match the PHS for it."

My opinion- I find this sort of thing underhanded. I don't condone this type of thing any more than removing the vin/data plate from one rust bucket of a car and placing it on another rust free body and claiming/selling it as original to reclaim a higher "original resale value" to an unsuspecting car enthusiast. -sorry, just how I feel about it.


"Now the crap part is I did not realize how hard parts are to find for this thing. I normally would not have cared if parts were original but everyone who sees the car tells me how rare the thing is and that I should keep it as close to original as i can."

-Yes, the '64 GTO convertible would be a "rare" car. In 1965, the engine was somewhat redesigned, so your engine falls into the '64 and earlier design which also makes it unique among GTO's. I frequent cars shows/swap meets and find Pontiac cars or parts to be in extremely low numbers with parts commanding high prices. Anything that is not Chevy or Ford always pulls higher prices whether you are restoring or rebuilding. The cautionary part is that you can wind up investing more money in the car than you will get in return, even if it is "rare."
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-07-2015, 01:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Goat Roper View Post
I walked the entire Pomona Swap meet and there were tons of Chevy and Ford parts, the only Pontiac stuff was a tach and a vacuum gauge.
I was looking for an oil pan and could have bought dozens of them for Chevys, not one for a Pontiac.
I walked the classic cars for sale, Impalas, woodies even a stretch '59 Caddy but not one GTO.
Seems about right. Except for the occasional '67, I never see Pontiacs out and about. Motivated me to join the local GTOAA.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-08-2015, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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So I talked to a few people in the bay area that are genearlly accepted to be the best at restoring about the re-stamping. They said it is totally acceptable to do it but that it is illegal to pass it off as an original block to the car if I ever sell it. And that if i ever do try to sell it I have to include at the min form of legalise that the block is "restored" but that i really should say it is has been re-stamped. I also toyed with the idea of the idea of just decking the block and leaving it blank. It is 64 gto block just not the 79j one I need. I really am torn about it because the block is real gto block and decking it would ruin it for someone who could really use the 4 barrel manual block as opposed to the 4 barrel auto. The only reason I am even considering it is I don't really know the condition of the block. It may very well be toast. I will make a decision on it when we put it apart. I will keep looking for a 79j but they are really hard to find.

I am not trying to be dodgy about it. I dont think I will ever sell the the car and the more and more I think about it I dont know why I care if the block matches. I dont think I will ever actually put it in the car. It will just sit in my garage.


So yeah I have done a few fords and I am not used to having to hunt for these parts. I have a Camaro as well and for that you can even buy a full shell, so there is no shortage of parts for it, But man these gto parts really are unicorns
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-08-2015, 05:02 PM
 
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Pontiacs are a little tougher to find original parts that are reasonably priced. Plenty of aftermarket items, but they sometimes don't fit or work as original without modification. With the Camaro stuff, I think you could actually build a brand new car with little effort and a fat wallet.

If you plan on keeping the car long term, then shelve the '64 block and trans and update with a 1965 and up engine/trans. Doing this alone should make it easier to rebuild and get parts. I would go with a 1968 and up 400CI as you get the open chamber heads which are somewhat better. Many options when it comes to engine part selection. You build a Pontiac engine for torque and not RPM, so it is a different approach than a Chevy build. Do your homework and draw up a plan on the engine/trans combo based on what you want the car to do.

And if you build it right, the Camaro will be collecting dust because you'll want to drive the GTO all the time.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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My steering wheel will need to be restored as well. I am curious on how you did it.

I read that the fillers are not the way to go. The guy I talked to had a mold made and said he breaks off the bakalite or what ever it was on the original wheel and will recast the whole thing using the exsisting metal already in the wheel for support. He will cast it in one piece. He told me that he tried the expoxy fillers and it just did not work as well.

So how did you do it?

I am in good with my old shop teacher from high school and he told me a while back i could use the small foundry they have to cast anything i want out of Aluminum as long as I pay for the Al and electrcity to fire the furnace. Oh and there is a limitation to the size of stuff I can cast. about 18 inches by 6 inches and the clay they have is not fine so it is not the best for finish pieces. And I can not do really complex parts. because I can not do a wax casting. But a wheel could be done.

I tried to do a door handle and It actually came out but it was extreemly hard to get the finish right after I broke it out of the mold. I had 2 hours in sanding and finishing in it so it hardly made it worth it. It was more of a proof of concept.
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  Pontiac GTO Forum > The 1964-1974 Pontiac Tempest, Lemans & GTO > 1964-1974 Tempest, Lemans & GTO General Discussion

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