PS belt wont stop squeaking - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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PS belt wont stop squeaking

I am perplexed. I have new PS pump and new Gates belts on my 65 389, but for some reason, I can't get the PS belt to stop squealing . I've sprayed it with belt dressing and it stops for about 30 seconds. I took the belt off and checked to make sure the PS pump and water pump turn freely and they do. I've checked the alignment of the pulleys and they are are in line. I even purchased a new Durlast belt and while it's better, it still squeals. Everything is new, pulleys, pump, hoses and PS box and the engine just rebuilt. I can get the belt plenty tight enough so pretty sure that's not the problem. I am beginning to suspect it may be something with the new PS pump, but odd that the belt dressing quietens the belt momentarily. The belt is a Gates 7520 and is .410 wide which seems to be the correct length and width. I am not at the end of the belt tightening travel. Has anyone experienced anything like this and if so, what's the cure? Sadly just because it's new doesn't mean it's any good anymore!!
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 09:28 PM
 
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powder coated or painted in the pulley to belt contact area ??
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 09:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ronayers1965 View Post
I am perplexed. I have new PS pump and new Gates belts on my 65 389, but for some reason, I can't get the PS belt to stop squealing . I've sprayed it with belt dressing and it stops for about 30 seconds. I took the belt off and checked to make sure the PS pump and water pump turn freely and they do. I've checked the alignment of the pulleys and they are are in line. I even purchased a new Durlast belt and while it's better, it still squeals. Everything is new, pulleys, pump, hoses and PS box and the engine just rebuilt. I can get the belt plenty tight enough so pretty sure that's not the problem. I am beginning to suspect it may be something with the new PS pump, but odd that the belt dressing quietens the belt momentarily. The belt is a Gates 7520 and is .410 wide which seems to be the correct length and width. I am not at the end of the belt tightening travel. Has anyone experienced anything like this and if so, what's the cure? Sadly just because it's new doesn't mean it's any good anymore!!

I have best results with the Dayco top cogged belts. I have had the other brands be too narrow and don't grab the inside edges of the pulley well enough. You might also try sanding inside the pulley to rough it up a little.

My next thought is, could the PS pump be going bad? Maybe causing too much drag and not rotating as easily as it should and not keeping up with the engine? I would spin it by hand a little feeling for anything dragging or catching. I assume it has power steering fluid/automatic trans fluid and not anything heavier?
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-01-2019, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
 
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Jim,
Thanks! In full disclosure, my car was not born with PS. The previous owner had started the conversion and I completed it with the correct pulleys etc. I purchased a new PS pump from NPD. It also does not have factory air, so the pulley on the PS pump is not one that's in reproduction, I had to source an original used one from Sonic Motors which I just cleaned and painted with a rattle can. It seems to run true and the pulley V width seems consistent. The diameter of the non air car PS pulley (at the pump) is larger than an AC car (of which they do make reproduction pulleys for). I have removed the belt and the PS pump seems to spin pretty freely, but I had a number of "new" parts that were not any good so it's entirely possible it's faulty. I may have it replaced for good measure. Yes I only use true PS fluid. Where were you able to source the brand of belt you mentioned. Both the Gates and Durlast are .410 wide. Thanks for the tips!
Ron
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-01-2019, 04:33 PM
 
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can we get pictures with different angles of the pulleys n belts?

Last edited by BLK69JUDGE; 10-06-2019 at 07:05 PM.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-01-2019, 05:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ronayers1965 View Post
Jim,
Thanks! In full disclosure, my car was not born with PS. The previous owner had started the conversion and I completed it with the correct pulleys etc. I purchased a new PS pump from NPD. It also does not have factory air, so the pulley on the PS pump is not one that's in reproduction, I had to source an original used one from Sonic Motors which I just cleaned and painted with a rattle can. It seems to run true and the pulley V width seems consistent. The diameter of the non air car PS pulley (at the pump) is larger than an AC car (of which they do make reproduction pulleys for). I have removed the belt and the PS pump seems to spin pretty freely, but I had a number of "new" parts that were not any good so it's entirely possible it's faulty. I may have it replaced for good measure. Yes I only use true PS fluid. Where were you able to source the brand of belt you mentioned. Both the Gates and Durlast are .410 wide. Thanks for the tips!
Ron


My belt info seems to indicate that the belt used is 7/16", or .4375. My '68 Service Manual says to use a 15/32, or .4668, wide belt for my power steering pump. Your belt as measured, .410 wide is most likely too narrow and what I experienced with my '68 Alt. belt before going to the Dayco belt. The PS belt is generally wider than the Alt. belt.

Width is not the only consideration, the pitch at which the belt is made is important. Some can taper in too quickly giving you even less surface area to grip the pulley. So in reality, it could only be the top edge @ .410 that is gripping and this is not enough.

You should be able to get the Dayco brand of belt most anywhere. You may have to ask for it. Here is one at Rockauto (I do use Rockauto myself without issues) that says its for the 1965 GTO 389CI and the width is .440. Cheap enough, $4.46 plus shipping: Here is the listing page for the belts - https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...rive,belt,8900 AND here is the actual Dayco belt specs for Dayco #15515 https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...nlmWxKmw%3D%3D
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2019, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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Jim and all, Thanks again! Unfortunately Dayco belts can not ship to California per Rockauto's site because they don't have the necessary prop 65 warning information from Dayco. Not sure what to do now but maybe can order it from another source. Nothing is easy in California and we are looking to move from here soon! Thanks for the pulley info too. In thinking about it, both the new crank and water pump pulleys are probably powder coated so perhaps roughing these up in the V will help to give them more grip. I will let you know how the story unfolds.
Ron
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2019, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
 
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Just found the belt locally at Carquest Auto parts. Will let you know if that fixes the problem
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2019, 02:11 PM
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I had a similar problem with my El Camino. Tried belts from Gates, Dayco, roughed up the pulleys, nothing worked until I bought some Goodyear Gatorback belts from O'Reillys. Not a squeak since.

Make sure to clean all the belt dressing residue from your pulleys. As you've seen thats just a temporary measure and is pretty much useless. The residue contaminates any new belts you may put on and you're back to square one.

New belts will stretch for the first couple hundred miles and will need to be re-adjusted again.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-04-2019, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
 
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Still have noise. I found the Dayco 15515 locally and installed it. With it being slightly shorter than the Gates, It now made my alternator belt too long, so back to the parts store for a Dayco 15505. This helped for a few minutes, but the squealing soon returned. So I returned the PS pump to NPD for a new exchange and just installed that, but still I am getting the noise, although it's now more of a grumbling/squealing noise and the belt dressing does not quieten it. Just to be sure, I removed the PS belt and fired the engine again and the noise was not there, so I know it's not the water pump nor the alternator. I've also cleaned the pulleys and using my Dremel tool, I ground the powder coating off the water pump and crank pulleys and the any paint from the PS pulley, then cleaned everything with Acetone and by using the Dremel instead of sand paper, I was able to create roughness on the pulley in the opposite direction, which should have increased grip, but still I have this noise. I was careful not to grind too much to increase the pulley V width. I have double and triple checked any and all pulley alignment and interference with the belt. I am not a novice at this as I have been working on cars as a hobby since I was 15 and am now 66 and did this same conversion on my Nova many years ago without any problem. I just can't figure this out and feel really defeated. I don't know what to do now other than convert it back to manual steering and try to sell the PS components. Any ideas and suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
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