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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-13-2019, 07:38 AM Thread Starter
 
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-13-2019, 09:32 AM
 
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Idiotic article to me. Either you are an enthusiast or an investor. This is an example of whats killing the hobby.
The value is in the enjoyment of ownership. If you have 20 to 50 grand and are looking for an investment, with very rare exception, a muscle car is one of the poorest choices you can make. (Even with the recent 1000 point market adjustment)

There can be so many reasons why the market is “soft”. Maybe many “Second generation” GTOs are already registered and insured and thus not generating new policy quotes? Maybe people are tired of paying astronomical prices for mediocre or incorrectly restored cars at auctions that have a 10% premium built into the transaction and hired shills to pad the bids. Over 216,000 GTOs were built from 68 to 72, there is no shortage. Though only 2% were Judges originally, there must be close to 10 of all GTOs on the road are Judges now…. Anybody with some rusted out hulk and PHS doc and a vin tag thinks their gem is worth a fortune, maybe that’s also affecting sales?
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-13-2019, 03:59 PM
 
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Seen many lemans/tempest at car shows turned into Gto's with badging only. With people walking by admiring a Gto While I am shaking my head. Look for a chevelle on ebay. Everyone is a SS. Only a 138 or build sheet car is a real SS. Glad ours have the 242. There was a 70 chevelle SS convertible 4 speed with a 454. Ls6? at a car show. And I told my wife that the stars would have to been aligned to have all that in a car. Then he drives it to a mediocre car show. Even the judges give them a pass. So that don't help the cause any.
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-13-2019, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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Idiotic article to me. Either you are an enthusiast or an investor. This is an example of whats killing the hobby.
The value is in the enjoyment of ownership. If you have 20 to 50 grand and are looking for an investment, with very rare exception, a muscle car is one of the poorest choices you can make. (Even with the recent 1000 point market adjustment)

There can be so many reasons why the market is “soft”. Maybe many “Second generation” GTOs are already registered and insured and thus not generating new policy quotes? Maybe people are tired of paying astronomical prices for mediocre or incorrectly restored cars at auctions that have a 10% premium built into the transaction and hired shills to pad the bids. Over 216,000 GTOs were built from 68 to 72, there is no shortage. Though only 2% were Judges originally, there must be close to 10 of all GTOs on the road are Judges now…. Anybody with some rusted out hulk and PHS doc and a vin tag thinks their gem is worth a fortune, maybe that’s also affecting sales?
I do not not agree with your opinion . I will use my son for snd example. He grew up working on muscle cars with me. He loved the GTO and bought a 69 that needed a total rebuild. Fast forward three years the car is gone . Parts were hard to find and were priced at twice the price of chevy parts . We went to many Pontiac folk who have hoarded 1000 of parts but would not sell any, and if they did it would be the junk.for crazy money. You can say I'm wrong but I'm not. The young kids don't want to play the games . This had nothing about making money for these kids. I have said for years there are barns full of parts (gto) but some reason these folks won't sell. Fast forward to today and no one wants the parts so now what? I guess they will just rot away . I will take my hits for this but it the way it is snd the way it's been with PONTIACS for many years. I'm sure if you compare the average age of a GTO owner to other muscle cars it not close .(much older) We are getting old and have now lost a generation of young adults who wanted in but were not allowed. I will add that I have tried over the years selling parts to forum member that I could have held for a fair price. All I wanted wast a hand shake it was for them and not for resale . This is my opinion only . Doug
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2019, 04:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dd68gto View Post
I do not not agree with your opinion . I will use my son for snd example. He grew up working on muscle cars with me. He loved the GTO and bought a 69 that needed a total rebuild. Fast forward three years the car is gone . Parts were hard to find and were priced at twice the price of chevy parts . We went to many Pontiac folk who have hoarded 1000 of parts but would not sell any, and if they did it would be the junk.for crazy money. You can say I'm wrong but I'm not. The young kids don't want to play the games . This had nothing about making money for these kids. I have said for years there are barns full of parts (gto) but some reason these folks won't sell. Fast forward to today and no one wants the parts so now what? I guess they will just rot away . I will take my hits for this but it the way it is snd the way it's been with PONTIACS for many years. I'm sure if you compare the average age of a GTO owner to other muscle cars it not close .(much older) We are getting old and have now lost a generation of young adults who wanted in but were not allowed. I will add that I have tried over the years selling parts to forum member that I could have held for a fair price. All I wanted wast a hand shake it was for them and not for resale . This is my opinion only . Doug
I was one of those kids in the early eighties working on a 1967 GTO and couldn't agree more with this statement. I stopped going to swap meets and such in the late eighties mainly due to seeing the same greasy/greedy dirt bags bring their already decades old "NOS" parts in their crusty condition GM/Delco boxes year after year after year and always maintaining their quest for Top-Top dollar. If you dare ask any intelligent question(s) regarding said parts you got the usual jag-off response about their rarity and bla bla bla but never a straight answer. And heaven forbid you try to haggle or talk package deals. The good guys didn't have to play the swap game their reputation made them well know and easy to locate and deal with, sadly they were in smaller number compared to Mr Swap-meet.

Fast forward and as you said no one wants these SAME parts and the market share don't give a shit about the few hold outs.
You can still see/find remnants of these jag-offs pushing those parts on EPAY which is very entertaining to say the least.
Now Mr vendor aren't you glad you massaged your pretty little parts/boxes all those years.

Harsh? You bet. Reality sux.
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2019, 06:30 AM
 
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I do not not agree with your opinion . I will use my son for snd example. He grew up working on muscle cars with me. He loved the GTO and bought a 69 that needed a total rebuild. Fast forward three years the car is gone . Parts were hard to find and were priced at twice the price of chevy parts . We went to many Pontiac folk who have hoarded 1000 of parts but would not sell any, and if they did it would be the junk.for crazy money. You can say I'm wrong but I'm not. The young kids don't want to play the games . This had nothing about making money for these kids. I have said for years there are barns full of parts (gto) but some reason these folks won't sell. Fast forward to today and no one wants the parts so now what? I guess they will just rot away . I will take my hits for this but it the way it is snd the way it's been with PONTIACS for many years. I'm sure if you compare the average age of a GTO owner to other muscle cars it not close .(much older) We are getting old and have now lost a generation of young adults who wanted in but were not allowed. I will add that I have tried over the years selling parts to forum member that I could have held for a fair price. All I wanted wast a hand shake it was for them and not for resale . This is my opinion only . Doug
I am not sure I understand what your talking about.

As related to the Hagerty article you posted.., are you saying because of the difficulty in buying parts in the past specifically for Pontiacs – that is what is making the market soft value wise / and reducing sales for the second generation GTO?

Seems to me the sales that are listed by actions and Hagerty are for speculators who just want to flip the vehicle, not GTO lovers.

Ironic, I find parts much more accessible now, and the speed options available today were not even dreamed about years ago. Aftermarker bolt on heads for a Pontiac that flow as good as a BB Chevy right out of the box, never had stuff like that years ago.

Last edited by 11th Indian; 01-14-2019 at 06:48 AM.
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-14-2019, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by dd68gto View Post
I do not not agree with your opinion . I will use my son for snd example. He grew up working on muscle cars with me. He loved the GTO and bought a 69 that needed a total rebuild. Fast forward three years the car is gone . Parts were hard to find and were priced at twice the price of chevy parts . We went to many Pontiac folk who have hoarded 1000 of parts but would not sell any, and if they did it would be the junk.for crazy money. You can say I'm wrong but I'm not. The young kids don't want to play the games . This had nothing about making money for these kids. I have said for years there are barns full of parts (gto) but some reason these folks won't sell. Fast forward to today and no one wants the parts so now what? I guess they will just rot away . I will take my hits for this but it the way it is snd the way it's been with PONTIACS for many years. I'm sure if you compare the average age of a GTO owner to other muscle cars it not close .(much older) We are getting old and have now lost a generation of young adults who wanted in but were not allowed. I will add that I have tried over the years selling parts to forum member that I could have held for a fair price. All I wanted wast a hand shake it was for them and not for resale . This is my opinion only . Doug
I am not sure I understand what your talking about.

As related to the Hagerty article you posted.., are you saying because of the difficulty in buying parts in the past specifically for Pontiacs – that is what is making the market soft value wise / and reducing sales for the second generation GTO?

Seems to me the sales that are listed by actions and Hagerty are for speculators who just want to flip the vehicle, not GTO lovers.

Ironic, I find parts much more accessible now, and the speed options available today were not even dreamed about years ago. Aftermarker bolt on heads for a Pontiac that flow as good as a BB Chevy right out of the box, never had stuff like that years ago.
Sorry you missed my point. Not going to repeat. I see parts sit on eBay for crazy money that never sell. I have also seen the same on FB swap meet pages that have taken over for Craig's list and eBay. Lots of older dealers with Pontiacs that have hoarded parts thinking that some day they would make a killing . Its never going to happen because we lost a young generation of buyers because of greed. I love Pontiac but I'm 63 years old. Try to find someone in there twenties that feel that way. You won't.?Doug
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 04:59 AM
 
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I own a 68 GTO in pretty good condition and is still a blast to drive. I don't mind if it's price stays flat or falls as I have no intention to sell it as I refer to it as my fourth child. My 10 year old daughter is into cars in a big way and loves the car, we are building her first engine this summer. We decided a 350 chevy small block would be a good first one as prices and parts are at the lower end of the spectrum. If it goes well we will do a 400 and a TH400 with an eye to fining a decent roller to put it in. I have to say a soft GTO market could be the best thing for the hobby as prices have become unrealistic. An example would be 1968 coup (barn find) matching number for 6,500.00. It was a rust bucket complete with bullet holes in the rear 1/4 panels, engine torn apart interior totally rotted out and Fred Flintstone floorboards. I wanted it for the frame and body. Offered 4k as it was close to home, Seller was insulted and asked me to leave. It is still sitting in his driveway a year latter and I am still looking for a good frame. Let the market soften it can only benefit the enthusiast as the speculators look elsewhere.
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 06:03 AM
 
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Sorry you missed my point. Not going to repeat. I see parts sit on eBay for crazy money that never sell. I have also seen the same on FB swap meet pages that have taken over for Craig's list and eBay. Lots of older dealers with Pontiacs that have hoarded parts thinking that some day they would make a killing . Its never going to happen because we lost a young generation of buyers because of greed. I love Pontiac but I'm 63 years old. Try to find someone in there twenties that feel that way. You won't.?Doug
OK, I got it.
The market, according to Hagerty for second generation GTOs is soft - and you say its because of parts being horded and expectations of unrealistic prices for these parts.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 10:49 AM Thread Starter
 
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Sorry you missed my point. Not going to repeat. I see parts sit on eBay for crazy money that never sell. I have also seen the same on FB swap meet pages that have taken over for Craig's list and eBay. Lots of older dealers with Pontiacs that have hoarded parts thinking that some day they would make a killing . Its never going to happen because we lost a young generation of buyers because of greed. I love Pontiac but I'm 63 years old. Try to find someone in there twenties that feel that way. You won't.?Doug
OK, I got it.
The market, according to Hagerty for second generation GTOs is soft - and you say its because of parts being horded and expectations of unrealistic prices for these parts.
Yes theft is what I'm saying . The high end judge/ ram air cars will continue to sell but for far less than other comparable muscle cars . But try to sell a # 3 plain Jane gto and hold on to your wallet. Reason is younger generation don't want them and the older folk who do are just getting to old. it our own fault .but this is my opinion and I'm willing to bet I'm right and not alone .doug
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