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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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Spray Bomb Paints

I wanted to place this in the general discussion instead of the restoration forum because we all touch-up or simply paint a part or two with spray paint.

You would think spray painting with a can should be fairly straight forward, right? Been doing it since I began building models 40 years ago. But lately, trying to paint my engines pulleys and brackets has got me pulling my hair out. I even had to research this because I was having so much problem with simply getting a good finish...and one that shines.

Apparently, due to the good old EPA people, spray paint has been reformulated. I used to like Rustoleum, but not so much right now.

I like the Rustoleum primer, but now, it seems to stink. I tried the regular stuff and the rusty metal primer just to see if there were any difference in them. Nope.

The problem is that the paint doesn't seem to dry. It stays "soft" -which seems to be a BIG common complaint on many car forums. I let my primered parts dry for a day and even more on some. Then put a color coat of black on. If you spray it thin, it does not cover and it is rough in texture. So you put on a heavier coat and then watch the paint craze, and in some instances, lift. WTF? 2 days later, I pick it up and the paint is still soft and I can actually impress my finger print into it. Don't set any painted part paint side down thinking it "feels dry" because when you go to pick it up, the paint has stuck to whatever surface and off it rips.

OK, so I let it dry for a week, wet sand the crazed and lifted surface to smooth it out for another application of black. Nice even coat, not too heavy, then as I watch, the paint once again crazes - but more all over. Dag nabbit! Repeat, because now I have a nice layer of black on it, and think I'll try and seal this thing with a coat of clear instead of color and I even used a different brand - Krylon. Son of a bi.......the paint begins to craze AND some of the gloss shine gets absorbed into the paint and I now have a mix of gloss, satin looking spots, and crazed black!

So now I try a different approach, self etching primer on a billet aluminum pulley. Primer goes on great, even coat, let it dry for over a day. On goes the Rustoleum black, and the paint looks like it has small specs of dust, and a couple crinkled/dry spots. I've tried 3 different cans of the black.

At work, our painter shot a coat of black on a truck fender, and it came out like I am describing. So he thought he would build it up a bit and wet sand it down to smooth it out. Wrong. It made it worse and looked like my pulleys. The paint didn't seem to harden for him either. He had to sand it down which took some doing because the "soft" paint really clogged his sand paper up real quick.

The solution? He added a hardener (which costs more to add and my company hates to spend for such things that cut into profit margins) to the paint to get it to cure and flow out. The paint job came out perfect and no issues. The hardener made all the difference.

So I have come to the conclusion, as well as others on the assorted forums, that the present paints that have been castrated of their needed drying agents and gloss enhancers by the EPA are no longer the friend of the "car guy." Some mentioned that the epoxy paints (I see these for appliances) seem to still work. The complaint was not limited to just Rustoleum, other name brands seemed to be as problematic as well.

Should I have to "bake" all my parts to dry them as some suggested they do? Do I need to wait weeks between coats of paint? Do I drop them off at a powder coater and pay that price tag? Maybe I should just buy new reproduction pulleys and brackets which should already be painted and ready to go. I don't think I should have to buy automotive paint with hardener just to get some pulleys and brackets done up, but maybe that the only way any more. I think I'm getting the picture as to why so many use billet aluminum pulleys after all the grief I have encountered trying to "just paint 'em spray bomb black." (silver parts came out crappy too) Those NY graffiti artists must be pretty frustrated trying to get a good finish on their wall art.

Am I the only one to experience this phenomenon??
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 04:35 PM
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Less solvents and they add wax to slow evaporation to get the paint to comply with VOM.
It ends up releasing the same amount just at a lower rate and the wax really screws with finish and adhesion.
The wax is what is causing the crazing.
When I built my house I used linseed oil mixed with pigments, thinner and Penetrol.
Out here in Ca. that was banned and using the newer water based formula would have made a mess out of it.
I had to drive to Az. to get the real stuff.
I have 30 gallons mixed and stored and capped off to the top with thinner so I have it the next time I need to recoat the house.
Spray paint out here is a joke, lacquer isn't lacquer, enamel isn't enamel etc.
It is getting harder each year to get real products, hell out here anything that works has been banned.
For degreasing I have to use gasoline which I don't like to use but it is the only thing that works, even the kerosene has been reformulated.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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Yep, I'm really disappointed in the paints. Not only the paint, the Gunk engine degreaser is a joke. The only stuff I seem to be able to get at my local Walmart is the foamy spray. That's about all it does - foam. It doesn't degrease like the old Gunk used to. After using a couple cans on my caked up oil pan, scraping, wire brushing, and foaming again, it didn't really do a whole lot of nothin'. The old Gunk would have melted it away with no problem.

Told a guy at work about the Gunk and he said he gave up using it and buys this stuff called Totally Awesome. It looks like a generic brand type of cleaner in a spray bottle. I think I paid $1.19 for the quart and they have a 1 gallon re-fill jug as well -cheap. Sure enough, this stuff did a lot better job than the Gunk ever did.

I bought a small sand blaster which I used on my pulleys and brackets after giving them a good treatment of Totally Awesome and the wire brush. This got them spotless and ready for paint (and we know how that turned out).

I did the oil pan the same way, but you have to make sure you flush/clean ALL the sand grit out of the area under the oil baffle. I like to use the CRC brand Brakleen brake parts cleaner with the "harmful vapors" as a degreaser as well. Works real good, but runs out fast and costs a little more. I used this on the oil pan and got it cleaned out. The problem was that now the inside of the oil pan was rough from the sand blasting -not a good surface for oil return (glass bead or walnut shell might have done better, but sand is cheap). So out came the high speed die grinder with the scotchbrite type of buffing pads. Buffed the inside smooth and mirror like as well as the oil pan baffle. Then I painted it with engine paint on the outside and wiped some WD-40 on to protect the inside.

I am thinking that the best paint going right now seems to be the engine paints. I am going to revisit my local auto store and get some black if they have it -I can't recall if the engine paint comes in black, but they had all other colors to include some unique finishes and clear.

Very disappointed in all this. Should be a simple thing, but I guess the tree hugging environmentalists are winning and things which use to work just don't any more. I'm starting to get nervous thinking what have they done to re-formulate bondo so it no longer works/adheres like it used to!
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 09:58 PM
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Gunk is total crap now, you would be better off wiping the grease off with the money you will waste on this $hit!
I bought two cans to clean the engine bay when I pulled my engine and it did nothing.
I ended up scraping and using a parts brush and gas.

You should see the crap they paint the lines on the road out here now, the white dots they painted on the rocks along the road in the '60's are still there, the white fog lines they paint are gone before the fog shows up.
The new lacquer thinner leaves a milky haze, I have 2 gallons of old school naphtha I use very sparingly to pull the damn wax off the surface before a second coat of paint.

There are some good paints, if I try to order it I get the cannot ship to Ca. prompt so I know it will work and I have a buddy in Louisiana buy it and ship it to me.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-21-2015, 06:26 AM
 
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Naphtha, I take it home from work by the gallon,along with 50b caustic and some 99% acid. Got some other industrial stuff that works well for grease too. But yes living in CA makes things difficult.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-21-2015, 07:14 AM
 
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brakleen works but evaporates fast on greasy parts.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 09:08 AM
 
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I certainly don't want to fire off a debate, but while I agree that the old stuff worked WAAY better and I miss it, I do appreciate being able to breathe cleaner air and drink clean water.

When the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
I certainly don't want to fire off a debate, but while I agree that the old stuff worked WAAY better and I miss it, I do appreciate being able to breathe cleaner air and drink clean water.
You can tell the difference or are you taking the tree huggers word for it?
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2015, 08:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by PontiacJim View Post
You can tell the difference or are you taking the tree huggers word for it?
I can remember driving over the Grapevine into the LA basin in the 70's and seeing nothing but brown on the horizon. I can tell you first hand it is WAY better now.

I will also say that without the impetus to change, the auto industry would not have done it on their own. Without the smog laws (and yes, I hated them with a passion), we would not have cars delivering 500 reliable horsepower, getting nearly 30 mpg and putting almost nothing out the tailpipe.

So, while I wholeheartedly agree that the old stuff was formulated to "work" better, there were scads of unwanted side effects. I can live with the inconvenience.

Cheers!

When the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2015, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
I can remember driving over the Grapevine into the LA basin in the 70's and seeing nothing but brown on the horizon. I can tell you first hand it is WAY better now.

I will also say that without the impetus to change, the auto industry would not have done it on their own. Without the smog laws (and yes, I hated them with a passion), we would not have cars delivering 500 reliable horsepower, getting nearly 30 mpg and putting almost nothing out the tailpipe.

So, while I wholeheartedly agree that the old stuff was formulated to "work" better, there were scads of unwanted side effects. I can live with the inconvenience.

Cheers!
A lot of that was from industrial smoke stacks, Zappa wrote about the "dark green air and you could choke all day" in San Ber'dino from the steel plant in Fontana.
The smog devices helped a lot but if you really want to know where the smog went look at the air quality in China.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqoq2neEq0Y
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