Tempest or GTO? - Pontiac GTO Forum
User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-2007, 07:01 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Tempest or GTO?

We are in the process of restoring a 1970 what we thought was a Tempest or a Lemans until we were looking up the vin number. When we purchased the car 15 years ago, the original Ohio title said GTO, but the body of the car says Tempest and the Body number plate says its a Lemans. We always thought it was a mistake on the title, and always considered it a Tempest or Lemans. We are the second owners of the car, the original owner died and his daughter sold us the car. What exactly do we own? We know it isn't a GTO because the body style. It was all original when we purchased it. The Vin number is 242370B128623. The Body Plate is ST70 23537 PON 176898BDY TR 246 45 45 PNT 05C. Does anyone know anything that can shed some light on this? We were told it was never restored. What exactly is it?
theleos7 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-2007, 07:21 AM
 
macgto7004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: York, Pa
Posts: 681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hmmmmm,
This is an interesting one.
Based on the VIN you supplied, 242370B128623
2 = Pontiac
42 = GTO
37 = 2 door hardtop
0 = Year (70)
B = Baltimore (assembly Plant)
128623 = Production Number.

So, based solely on the VIN, it looks to be a GTO.

BUT...........................

Based on the body tag: ST70 23537 PON 176898BDY TR 246 45 45 PNT 05C.

ST70 = Model Year
2 = Pontiac
35 = Tempest Custom
37 = 2 door hartop
PON = Assembly Plant (Pontiac Michigan)
176898BDY = Body Number
TR = Trim Combination Number
246 = Unknown Interior color
45 45 PNT = Paint Combination (upper/lower) in this case, Palisades Green
05C = Build date May, 3rd week

Conclusion: Something is amiss here.

Either the VIN is not right, or the body tag, or the body for that matter, may have been replaced.

Best bet would be to run the VIN through PHS and see what comes up. The fact that it shows two different assembly plants is intriquing.
This car has obviously been apart at some point in it's 37 year life.

Is the car indeed Palisades green? Or can you find evidence that is was once that color or a different color?

Keep me posted on how all this pans out. I love a good mystery!

Russ

21st Century Muscle, The Soul of a Legend!

70 Palladium Silver HT 400/AT *SOLD* Elvis has left the building.
2004 YJ M6
2008 IOM G8 GT
Secretary, Newsletter Editor, Webmaster, Susquehanna Valley GTO Tigers
http://svgto.com

Last edited by macgto7004; 09-18-2007 at 07:26 AM.
macgto7004 is offline  
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-2007, 07:54 AM
Administrator
 
05GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Deliverance, GA
Posts: 5,132
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
That is strange, someone changed one or both of the plates. Here are a few things that may help identify the origin of this pontiac.
Check out the vin on the engine and frame, the frame vin number is located on the top of the frame on the drivers side behind the rear tire about the middle of the trunk.
Vin and data plates use rivets that were unique, post pictures of both plates.
Post all numbers from the engine, compare the build dates from the engine and transmission to the data plate build date.

Good luck,

Randy


05GTO is offline  
 
post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-2007, 08:34 AM
 
macgto7004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: York, Pa
Posts: 681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
with Randy.

Though the engine block number is not always right, find the VIN number on the frame and see if it matches the VIN on the body.

That will at least get you moving in the right direction.

Russ

21st Century Muscle, The Soul of a Legend!

70 Palladium Silver HT 400/AT *SOLD* Elvis has left the building.
2004 YJ M6
2008 IOM G8 GT
Secretary, Newsletter Editor, Webmaster, Susquehanna Valley GTO Tigers
http://svgto.com
macgto7004 is offline  
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-2007, 11:32 AM
Former Super Moderator
 
Rukee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,919
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
If the car`s vin number tag matches the Title vin ID #, then couldn`t you assume it was a GTO to start with? You can change tags, change frames, change bodies, but you can`t change the vin # on the title, right?

Last edited by Rukee; 09-18-2007 at 12:07 PM.
Rukee is offline  
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-2007, 12:35 PM
 
macgto7004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: York, Pa
Posts: 681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rukee View Post
If the car`s vin number tag matches the Title vin ID #, then couldn`t you assume it was a GTO to start with? You can change tags, change frames, change bodies, but you can`t change the vin # on the title, right?
You could assume that, yes.
It would make you wonder though, what would posses someone, who owned a genuine GTO, to put a Tempest body on the car. Unless it was rebuilt after a wreck and the firewall was replaced with the body tag intact, from a Tempest.
I have heard of someone taking a Tempest and making a GTO clone, but a GTO made into a Tempest clone??

I would love to research the history on this car to find out what really happened.

Russ

21st Century Muscle, The Soul of a Legend!

70 Palladium Silver HT 400/AT *SOLD* Elvis has left the building.
2004 YJ M6
2008 IOM G8 GT
Secretary, Newsletter Editor, Webmaster, Susquehanna Valley GTO Tigers
http://svgto.com
macgto7004 is offline  
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-2007, 12:44 PM
Former Super Moderator
 
Rukee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,919
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Could be anything, tree fell on it at one time and they threw a Tempest body on or somethin......
Rukee is offline  
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-2007, 03:55 PM
 
67/04gto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Garage
someone whiched the plates
67/04gto is offline  
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-2007, 06:55 PM
 
GTJoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by macgto7004 View Post
It would make you wonder though, what would posses someone, who owned a genuine GTO, to put a Tempest body on the car. Unless it was rebuilt after a wreck and the firewall was replaced with the body tag intact, from a Tempest.
I have heard of someone taking a Tempest and making a GTO clone, but a GTO made into a Tempest clone??

Russ
That would make it the perfect sleeper.wolf in sheeps clothing.
GTJoe is offline  
post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-19-2007, 05:57 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Tag job?

Back in the 60's and early 70's "tag" jobs were a common way to get a stolen car registered.

Someone either had wrecked GTO, or bought a wreck and replaced the car with a stolen Tempest Lemans.

They took the VIN tag from the GTO and put it on their "acquired" Tempest since it looked similar. They may have even switched over some GTO markings to make it look good.

I knew someone back then who had a Pontiac 421 2+2 with tri-power. He beat the car up so bad it was useless. He got a stolen Catalina and now had a new car through switching the tags. He kept repeating this over and over with the same tag, as he beat up the new car and needed another one, sometimes even using Bonnivilles instead of Catalinas. He was crazy and eventually went to jail for something.

The old car was gotten rid of through a auto junk yard which didn't ask questions or just left on some street in a bad neighborhood (the local car strippers took care of the rest).

It's probably near impossible to do the same thing today with all the indentification markings on a car.

BTW, many of these cars were later sold and no one knew what was done to bring it back to life. It was just a car to the the seller and buyer, nothing special about a Lemans. It's sometimes hard to tell if it's a true "tag job", some even reused the rivets for the tags or got replacements that matched the originals. The less exact ones used plain rivets because the value of the car didn't warrant such perfection. No one was going to look closely at a Lemans.

Last edited by Redevil06; 09-19-2007 at 10:26 AM. Reason: Clarify
Redevil06 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Pontiac GTO Forum > The 1964-1974 Pontiac Tempest, Lemans & GTO > 1964-1974 Tempest, Lemans & GTO General Discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Pontiac GTO Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome