Title, vin plate, and phs report up for bid, FRAUD VIN 242379P353387 - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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Title, vin plate, and phs report up for bid, FRAUD VIN 242379P353387

Just noticed this ad on ebay for a 69 gto, makes you wonder how many people buy goats that really never came from the factory... sellers ebay ad You are bidding on a 1969 GTO title and tags, I have the PHS repot on the car that was scrapped many years ago. This GTO was a 4 speed car with a console gauge tach and clock. It was shipped to Jake Sweeney Pontiac in Ohio. If you have any questions please ask. Seller is name daddydo396
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 09:46 PM
 
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Ok, I usually refrain from anything about vin swapping, engine block restamping, or frame restamping. Everytime it is brought up it stirs up a hornets nest. Genneraly speaking I feel if you have a significant part of a car and it is just too far gone to restore like a rolled over cabin, rear end collision that demollished the rear of the car, a roached frame, it is acceptable to get a replacement shell or frame that was a tempest and still call it a gto. But down out right selling a vin cut out and data plate and title is a clearly wrong and not to mention a clear cut violation of laws ( At least in California ) that explicitly prohibit this.


California Code, Vehicle Code - VEH 10802 . Any person who knowingly alters, counterfeits, defaces, destroys, disguises, falsifies, forges, obliterates, or removes vehicle identification numbers, with the intent to misrepresent the identity or prevent the identification of motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts, for the purpose of sale, transfer, import, or export, is guilty of a public offense and, upon conviction, shall be punished by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 of the Penal Code for 16 months, or two or three years, or by a fine of not more than twenty-five thousand dollars ($25, 000), or by both the fine and imprisonment, or by up to one year in the county jail, or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.

California Code, Vehicle Code - VEH 10750 . (a) No person shall intentionally deface, destroy, or alter the motor number, other distinguishing number, or identification mark of a vehicle required or employed for registration purposes without written authorization from the department, nor shall any person place or stamp any serial, motor, or other number or mark upon a vehicle, except one assigned thereto by the department.
(b) This section does not prohibit the restoration by an owner of the original vehicle identification number when the restoration is authorized by the department, nor prevent any manufacturer from placing in the ordinary course of business numbers or marks upon new motor vehicles or new parts thereof.

Illegal by federal standards as well
18 U.S. Code 511 - Altering or removing motor vehicle identification numbers..Text to long to post here



We should document this car as being just a vin plate, data plate and title with no car actually behind it.

VIN 242379P353387


I am going to let ebay know. This just aint right......

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-19-2018, 09:57 PM
 
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Ad should be removed and seller should be hung . I find it discussing but this Is just what is advertised . Got to think many more under radar. I don't know the fix. I know there are I think two more spots Vin were used on 68/69 up gto. I believe one was under heater core cover on fire wall and other was on frame. Please correct me if wrong . This is a sad part of our hobby and some think it is acceptable . I know a close friend who lost a huge amount of money and little to no chance of ever recovering . He just took his lost and was embarrassed that he got taken . I hope.we all take a stand and if know any one doing this this drops a call to local law enforcement . The sad part is our police have too much on the plate . I'm done but hope other realize how this ruins our hobby . Doug
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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It made me mad when I seen it.. I never had a problem with people cloning cars, chevelle, camaro, mustang cuda,challenger and yes the GTO.. I prefer to see cars of that era that were the muscle of those models.. (just dont mess with the vin) I hate the fact that this is been going on for a long time, nothing new, it's just someone making it public rather than hidden... I am Sure there are many out there, believe they bought the real deal..so it's probably done extremely well where as if you are not in business on restoring these cars or other muscle cars, you'll never know..
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyskala View Post
Ok, I usually refrain from anything about vin swapping, engine block restamping, or frame restamping. Everytime it is brought up it stirs up a hornets nest. Genneraly speaking I feel if you have a significant part of a car and it is just too far gone to restore like a rolled over cabin, rear end collision that demollished the rear of the car, a roached frame, it is acceptable to get a replacement shell or frame that was a tempest and still call it a gto. But down out right selling a vin cut out and data plate and title is a clearly wrong and not to mention a clear cut violation of laws ( At least in California ) that explicitly prohibit this.


California Code, Vehicle Code - VEH 10802 . Any person who knowingly alters, counterfeits, defaces, destroys, disguises, falsifies, forges, obliterates, or removes vehicle identification numbers, with the intent to misrepresent the identity or prevent the identification of motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts, for the purpose of sale, transfer, import, or export, is guilty of a public offense and, upon conviction, shall be punished by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 of the Penal Code for 16 months, or two or three years, or by a fine of not more than twenty-five thousand dollars ($25, 000), or by both the fine and imprisonment, or by up to one year in the county jail, or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.

California Code, Vehicle Code - VEH 10750 . (a) No person shall intentionally deface, destroy, or alter the motor number, other distinguishing number, or identification mark of a vehicle required or employed for registration purposes without written authorization from the department, nor shall any person place or stamp any serial, motor, or other number or mark upon a vehicle, except one assigned thereto by the department.
(b) This section does not prohibit the restoration by an owner of the original vehicle identification number when the restoration is authorized by the department, nor prevent any manufacturer from placing in the ordinary course of business numbers or marks upon new motor vehicles or new parts thereof.

Illegal by federal standards as well
18 U.S. Code 511 - Altering or removing motor vehicle identification numbers..Text to long to post here



We should document this car as being just a vin plate, data plate and title with no car actually behind it.

VIN 242379P353387


I am going to let ebay know. This just aint right......

Attachment 116417
Attachment 116419
Dead-on post, and absolutely correct. Only reason to sell GTO VIN and docs is to deceive and defraud, no other reason. This is totally different than a legitimate re-body of a valuable car where the cowl panel with VIN is welded in and many original parts are used. The ebay guy should be shut down. The only 'right' thing for him to do is to destroy the VIN tag, IMO.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 05:59 PM
 
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Man I reported it like a day ago and it is still not taken down.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-196...9:pf:0&vxp=mtr

You folks should log into bay and report it.

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Only 2 hours left on it and it looks like it will sell for 30 some odd dollars .

We got the vin up here but all that does is screw the guy or gal who gets duped. Hopefully someone who types the vin in will see this thread and figure out it was a cloned
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
 
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I was hoping it would be bought by a member and then post a video of it being destroyed. This should be posted in other GTO forums as well. Why wait for someone to get duped! Preventive maintenance..

Last edited by 1966tempest; 11-20-2018 at 06:31 PM.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-20-2018, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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My guess is that the persons who are making the bids are obviously familiar with the GTO, so makes you think, where else would you get information? GTO forums.. they could even be members... instead of the ad getting shut down, it should be bought, to ensure no one will get ripped of there hard earned money and a car of there dreams..
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 01:31 PM
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Sold for $70. Watch out, folks.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 07:28 PM
 
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Now that I think about it, if you buy the car with that vin, I am thinking you would have significant recourse because according to federal law it is illegal to swap just the vin plates. Also I looked up ebay rules and it also says it is against their policy.

Not to mention the fact that at least one persson brought it to their attention before the auction closed.. Me...
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  Pontiac GTO Forum > The 1964-1974 Pontiac Tempest, Lemans & GTO > 1964-1974 Tempest, Lemans & GTO General Discussion

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