1969 Judge - White Bumper? - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-15-2015, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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1969 Judge - White Bumper?

Iím preparing to go look at a 1969 GTO which the owner claims to be an authentic Judge (which I doubt, but thereís always a chance.) I know I need to get the VIN so that I can check it with the Pontiac Registry and know if its really a Judge, and I will grab the engine, transmission and paint codes as well.

One thing in particular has me intrigued: The car is green (canít tell what shade) with a white bumper. The owner claims that the white bumper was an original option, but I can find no mention of this other than an article about a specific car (1969 Pontiac GTO - High Performance Pontiac Magazine). Other than that I can find no evidence to support his claim. I figure it has a replacement bumper that was never painted to match, and somebody convinced him that itís a feature rather than a flaw. Anyone have any info about white bumpers?
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-15-2015, 11:00 PM
 
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The only white endura bumpers I've run across were on special order black paint '72 GTO's. Starlight black was not a regularly offered color that year. After the black '72's were delivered to the original selling dealer with the white Endura installed, the original dealer would have the nose prepped in their body shop and painted black. Maybe the car is a special order paint car and the original owner was a bit eccentric an wanted it left white. A quick ck of the trim tag will note if std color, or - - for special order paint.

FWIW, I picked up two nos '69 endura bumpers in the early 90's and both were a flat black color. Somewhere in old paperwork collection, I have a memo that was taped to the inside cover of an old Pontiac master parts book I bought in the mid 80's. The memo was dated late in the summer of '68 and was from the zone mgr of the Omaha NE zone and referenced a contact at the parts distribution warehouse. This memo had a list with quantitys next to it of many different color '68 GTO endura noses. These noses were prepainted and avail at same cost as a regular GTO Endura bumper from the parts distribution warehouse. From what the memo noted, some dealers were having a hard time repairing and painting the new Endura bumpers, and thus the early excess supply of prepainted Endura noses. Have never read or heard of similar deal for '69 model GTO's but it certainly could be possible, thus the possibility of a colored '69 Endura coming out of parts distribution.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-16-2015, 12:22 PM
 
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The white Endura Bumper is quite rare. It was not an option, but it was used on cars that received special order paint (there should be a double dash replacing the paint code on the cowl data tag). In other words, if the GTO buyer special ordered a color that was not normally available on a GTO, that GTO got the special color plus a white Endura bumper. It was all about the factory paint process for the Endura bumper's paint (which is a slightly different paint process from the regular paint process)...
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-16-2015, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thank you both very much! I wouldn't have known what to make of the "- -" on the cowl tag without you. It's good to know there's something tangible to look for to validate the white bumper.

I'm getting about 10 years ahead of myself here but; I already loathe the idea of being asked "why didn't you paint the bumper?" a thousand times...

Thanks again!
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-16-2015, 03:55 PM
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If you order the PHS on the car, it should tell you everything you need to know. Not a '69 expert, but a white endura bumper on a different colored car means it came off another car to me. And was never painted to match. JMHO.....
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-16-2015, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
 
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... a white endura bumper on a different colored car means it came off another car to me. And was never painted to match. JMHO.....
I agree. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. If it were a good condition car I'd be more inclined to believe the white bumper belongs there. But since it's a heap that's been parked since the early 70s and was parked because it "blew up," the bumper having been replaced and not painted sounds a WHOLE lot more likely.

Hopefully we'll all have closure in a few days.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-16-2015, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walnutavenue View Post
I’m preparing to go look at a 1969 GTO which the owner claims to be an authentic Judge (which I doubt, but there’s always a chance.) I know I need to get the VIN so that I can check it with the Pontiac Registry and know if its really a Judge, and I will grab the engine, transmission and paint codes as well.

One thing in particular has me intrigued: The car is green (can’t tell what shade) with a white bumper. The owner claims that the white bumper was an original option, but I can find no mention of this other than an article about a specific car (1969 Pontiac GTO - High Performance Pontiac Magazine). Other than that I can find no evidence to support his claim. I figure it has a replacement bumper that was never painted to match, and somebody convinced him that it’s a feature rather than a flaw. Anyone have any info about white bumpers?
The particular car in the article is owned by a guy in our club. If you read the article it states why the bumper is white. If others ordered their car with a special color that had paint adhesion issues they too may have had the option to choose between a few different colored bumpers. The white on this particular car was chosen to match the parchment interior. The bumper has never been touched nor was the Barrier Blue paint.

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-21-2015, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
 
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There's plenty I wouldn't trust about this car (or it's owner) after seeing it. Most importantly, for an "original 4 speed muncie" it's severely lacking a clutch pedal, and has gears labeled "P-R-N-D..." all in a straight line! I don't understand how people think they're going to slip those kind of details past a buyer.

Regarding the white bumper, the paint code is "57", so not special order paint. The bumper is really crooked which makes it seem like is a poorly installed replacement part, not an original install.

I couldn't get to much of the engine, only the passenger side. But from there I could see a holley carb, edelbrock intake, and crane rocker arms, and more than one set of headers laying around the car. Judge or not, it's not very original or intact. It will be interesting to see what PHS says about it...
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-21-2015, 07:29 PM
 
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Yeah I wouldn't trust anything other than the PHS docs.
Kinda reminds me of one I looked at before buying mine. I declined the car and found another. Then again there were more to choose from in the early 90's


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