67 engine code - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-26-2016, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
 
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67 engine code

I just received my '67 a few weeks ago and was under the impression that my engine was not original to the car. After looking at the engine codes now I am slightly confused.

Engine code next to distributor reads E107
Front passenger side of block reads a YS code.

According to the data plate the car was manufactured in the second week of may.

From my research it seems that both this block and car were built in may of '67. I've got to be missing something here, any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-26-2016, 11:58 AM
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On the front passenger side below the head along with the YS there should be some numbers and those numbers should match the engine unit number on your PHS report if it is the original engine.

http://www.phs-online.com/
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-27-2016, 08:46 AM
 
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"...code next to distributor reads E107...According to the data plate the car was manufactured in the second week of may..."


Wow ! If this is the original engine, and the car was actually finished during the 2nd week of May, that would mean that the block was cast May 10, and the car was finished no more than 4 days later. That would be some quick work. I don't think that happened, did it ?

I realize that an assembly line speeds up production. But, did Pontiac spit out cars, that fast, in '67--from a bare block to a finished car, in 4 days ? Or did production of the car just BEGIN during the 2nd week of May ? Or am I missing something ?


"...those numbers should match the engine unit number on your PHS report if it is the original engine."

I'm just curious. For those of you who have had a lot of experience with PHS reports and GTO's, what is the least amount of time difference you've seen between the block casting date and the date of production of the car ?

Last edited by bigD; 07-27-2016 at 09:20 AM.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-27-2016, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
 
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I really doubt things happened that fast as well. I ordered the PHS report so I'll let you know!
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-27-2016, 09:26 AM
 
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Chad, that tight date gap is perfectly possible on high volume engine codes out of the Pontiac MI assembly plant. I've been able to document it many times. The home Pontiac Assembly plant also had a Body Bank, where painted body shells were slotted awaiting their turn to make it on to the line. Other assembly plants, like Fremont, were assembling several divisions A body's, and did not have a Body Bank.

The most accurate way to determine when a vehicle was built is to find an original build sheet and look at the scheduling date. This scheduling date is typically correct, though the date on the sheet was inputted at least 4-5 days earlier anticipating certain assembly plant loads. Have been able to document this on early '71's that were "stuck" due the strike. Unfortunately, PHS's invoice copy does not have the scheduling date, only the shipping date, still a valuable piece of documentation.
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This is great information! Pinion, the car was assembled in Pontiac, MI.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-30-2016, 11:16 AM
 
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My '67 has the original engine per my PHS documentation. The date code on the engine is June 23, 1967 (F237). The invoice date on the Billing History sheet is June 29, 1967. That implies a very quick turnaround or assembly time. The car is from the Pontiac plant.

The date on the intake manifold is F067, which I assume means it was cast on June 6, 1967, so at least in my case, the intake was cast before the block was produced.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-01-2016, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Just received my PHS documentation. Engine was not original, block that is in the car was manufactured 1,349 later in that year of production. Which is pretty damn close! On the plus side, the car was originally a 4 speed with console (same as now) with a WS engine code which makes it the 4 bbl 360 horsepower factory setup.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-22-2016, 09:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigD View Post
... Or did production of the car just BEGIN during the 2nd week of May ? ...
Yes. The 52 week code designation found on the cowl tag represents when the body assembly process began (welding raw stamped metal panels to build the passenger and cargo compartment shell). Up to around 1970 or so...the body building process was contracted to Fisher Body for most all GM models. The Fisher Body plant built the bodies (firewall back), primed and painted the vehicle, installed the glass and hardware, door and rear compartment latches, interior upholstery and trim and exterior trim.

The codes on the cowl tag contain all the information necessary to complete the above tasks and produce a painted and trimmed body ready for transport to the Final Assembly Plant. As best as I can tell, start to finish took 2-3 days for the Fisher Body process.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 08-22-2016, 09:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pinion head View Post
Chad, that tight date gap is perfectly possible on high volume engine codes out of the Pontiac MI assembly plant. I've been able to document it many times. The home Pontiac Assembly plant also had a Body Bank, where painted body shells were slotted awaiting their turn to make it on to the line. Other assembly plants, like Fremont, were assembling several divisions A body's, and did not have a Body Bank.

The most accurate way to determine when a vehicle was built is to find an original build sheet and look at the scheduling date. This scheduling date is typically correct, though the date on the sheet was inputted at least 4-5 days earlier anticipating certain assembly plant loads. Have been able to document this on early '71's that were "stuck" due the strike. Unfortunately, PHS's invoice copy does not have the scheduling date, only the shipping date, still a valuable piece of documentation.
I am glad you mentioned the Body Bank as I have been attempting to gather some more info on that subject. Perhaps you can help me with some questions...
What is your understanding on where the body bank was used? The CRG website says the body bank (when used) was located between the Fisher and Final assembly plants. Trimmed out bodies from Fisher were stored in the body bank to await sequencing. This info is specific to Chevrolet F bodies but the info should relate to GM assembly in general . Here is the webpage:
CRG Research Report - Camaro Assembly Process

However, I have spoken with a former worker from a Los Angeles area assembly plant who says their body bank was located on the Fisher Body plant between the body and paint shops. All the bodies in the bank were 'body in white' cars (BIW). (finished cars, primed and ready for paint) Do you think it's possible that many plants had a 'body bank' but some were a bank of trimmed out cars while others were BIW cars? I would love to see a photo of the body bank....that might tell the story. I've heard the Pontiac Michigan Assembly plant had a 8 lane body bank. When I compare Invoice Date found on the BHC to the week code on the cowl tag, the invoice date usually is sometime during the next week following the cowl date. It can be a little longer for cars assembled at the Pontiac plant, it's not uncommon to see a 2 week spread between those milestones, I wonder if the size of the body bank at the Pontiac plant has any effect on the date spread? Although, I've really only seen a couple dozen examples so it would be helpful to see some more data to build a better picture of what actually happened.

Based on the info I've been able to gather so far....it seems the Invoice Date on the BHC best represents the actual build date. This should be the date the vehicle was cleared and released for delivery. Generally speaking, I believe the production sequence is summarized as follows:
  1. Order sent to Fisher Body where cowl tag is coded and week date stamped
  2. Body panels welded together, doors and decklid hung
  3. body shop prepares body for primer and paint
  4. "body bank"???
  5. Paint shop (still at Fisher Body plant)
  6. Fisher Body Trim shop (upholstery, glass, etc)
  7. Painted and trimmed body delivered from Fisher Body to Final Assembly plant (usually next door)
  8. Body sequenced for Final Assembly (VIN assignment, Broadcast Sheet printed)
  9. Final Assembly begins (VIN attached to body)
  10. A/C-heater box installed, instrument cluster, forward seats carpet
  11. Body married to rolling chassis
  12. front clip, hoods and bumpers installed
  13. Test, QC Inspection, Invoice, ship

Does this sound about right? Sounds like the Fisher Body work lasted about 2-3 days, the sequencing stage might be a day or two and then another day for final assembly. Barring any delays...maybe 5-6 days from start to finish?
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