A re-hash of protect o plate info '68 GTO - Pontiac GTO Forum
User Tag List

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
A re-hash of protect o plate info '68 GTO

I recently purchased a '68 GTO from a guy who bought it from the original owner just to flip it and i'm told that makes it a 3 owner car, which doesn't seem quite right to me, but anywho, i just met with the original owner who just found his paperwork and protect o plate when he bought the car. He has said that the car is an unmodified original, except one lower quarter replaced back in the '90's, and a period correct AM/FM radio installed. I thought i'd read, or dreamed somewhere that a protect o plate is the absolute ONLY way to tie the drive train together as original to a car, and not just period correct. And that PHS documentation doesn't prove it. I've researched online and don't find the definitive answer. So, does the POP do the job? Hotrod.com has a decoding series, but even they weren't sure that the code next in line after the engine code was related to the transmission or not. And certainly there doesn't appear to be anything codelike for a rear end. I searched the forums and the latest posts i saw were 3 years ago, and apparently some of the online info available now wasn't available then as far as decoding. Can anyone weigh in on the POP? Thanks.
wishihaditback is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 05:14 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Injun Territory, 'Merica!
Posts: 1,611
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
The POP will have the engine assembly number on it, but that doesn't prove the block or components are original. Carbs, distributors, intakes, transmissions, rearends, blocks, and cyl heads were often swapped out in the '70's. I can remember '71 casting 96's being a very popular D port head to swap on '67-70 GTO's and Firebirds when I was barely old enough to drive.

As collectible Pontiacs were found and restored over the last 30 years, many cars regained "correct date window" correct casting parts. Have had a lot of big valve high compression Pontiac heads go through my hands since the late '80's and most were bought or traded for to replace missing or cracked or heavily rusted original dated heads, not to go on local race cars or for upping compression ratio on 71+ lowr compression Pontiacs. That said, an original POP and truly original paperwork handed to you by the original owner, are as good as it gets. I would be aware that POP's were imprinted at the original dealership, and over the years, several of us have ran across numerous individuals that had certain year blank POP's and even a few had POP imprinters, and yes a few were using them to make new POP's. With the right type set, even correct dealer addressed POP's can be reproduced, and such occurences have been very well known in the BBC Chevelle, Camaro, and Vette hobby for decades.
Pinion head is offline  
post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Thanks for your input. So the bottom line then is that all GTO's should be assumed to never have the original drive train as it can not be proven, correct? As far as bogus POP's, i am convinced mine is authentic, as well as all the other documents in the name of the first owner, including his trade in and loan papers. It is disheartening to know that "as good as it gets" is really of no consequence in the end. I guess the POP tie in was a dream! Thanks again.
wishihaditback is offline  
 
post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 11:02 AM
 
dan woodland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 918
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Depending on when your car was built it may have the last portion of the VIN stamped on the block. Look here for more details... Classical Pontiac Numbers

Don't get to down, I'm betting the original owner isn't lying, why would he? Also the "flipper" isn't going to spend $ on it to flip it so i'd start looking at casting numbers and tags (like on the trans) and doucment what you have. I'd get the PHS documents to see what it had when it was born and go from there. If you are a purist and have some fun money you can always get the period correct parts and restore it back as it came off the line. That's what I'm in the process of doing for my car.

Post pics!!

Welcome to the club!!

Dan
dan woodland is offline  
post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Thanks Dan, and Pinion. After my whining and doing a bit more research that i should have gone a bit more deeply into before my post, i do know at this point that the block #'s do match the last 6 of the VIN. A mirror and flashlight were very helpful so i didn't have to crawl underneath the car. And apparently this stamping started in '68, and supposedly those #'s are stamped somewhere on the transmission as well. Haven't gotten that far yet. Undoubtedly having all the original documents and protect o plate is a great thing as Pinion stated, and i'm more that tickled to have them, and to still be able to be in touch with the original owner. But i guess i was wrongly under the impression that the POP was the end all of proving "numbers matching". Live and learn. I'll get some pics on before long. A basic rundown.....400, 4 speed, pwr steering, manual brakes, no A/C, 355 saf t trac rear end, 14" rally wheels, hideaway headlights, idiot lights and clock. F/R fader for radio. Came with the stock AM only, but the owner replaced it with a mono AM/FM (which is out being rebuilt). Vinyl top and one repaint of the original color. Thanks again for the responses! Steve
wishihaditback is offline  
post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-06-2015, 11:45 AM
 
dan woodland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 918
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Protect-o-Plate adds "value" to the car. Some data on it...

Pontiac Ident-O Plate & Protect-O Plate History Programs - Specific Codes - High Performance Pontiac Magazine

Pontiac Identification Plates - Ident-O-Plate And Protect-O-Plate Program History - High Performance Pontiac Magazine

Quote:
Originally Posted by wishihaditback View Post
Thanks Dan, and Pinion. After my whining and doing a bit more research that i should have gone a bit more deeply into before my post, i do know at this point that the block #'s do match the last 6 of the VIN. A mirror and flashlight were very helpful so i didn't have to crawl underneath the car. And apparently this stamping started in '68, and supposedly those #'s are stamped somewhere on the transmission as well. Haven't gotten that far yet. Undoubtedly having all the original documents and protect o plate is a great thing as Pinion stated, and i'm more that tickled to have them, and to still be able to be in touch with the original owner. But i guess i was wrongly under the impression that the POP was the end all of proving "numbers matching". Live and learn. I'll get some pics on before long. A basic rundown.....400, 4 speed, pwr steering, manual brakes, no A/C, 355 saf t trac rear end, 14" rally wheels, hideaway headlights, idiot lights and clock. F/R fader for radio. Came with the stock AM only, but the owner replaced it with a mono AM/FM (which is out being rebuilt). Vinyl top and one repaint of the original color. Thanks again for the responses! Steve
dan woodland is offline  
post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-07-2015, 09:26 AM
64-67 Expert
 
geeteeohguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fresno, California
Posts: 8,457
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
I respectfully disagree with pinionhead on this issue, at least with '67 and back POP's. The POP has the "EUN" or Engine Unit Number, as well as the VIN number.....on the same page. So it does definitely prove if the original block is in the car. Not a shadow of a doubt.
geeteeohguy is offline  
post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-07-2015, 09:30 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Injun Territory, 'Merica!
Posts: 1,611
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
early POP's have been reproduced off of original POP imprinters, has been done on original blank POP's. VIN, assembly numbers, original dealer, original owner have both been imprinted on them.

As we all know, '67 PHS will often have a copy of the IBM card with complete or depending on plant, partial engine assembly number and Id bet you would probably be shocked how many stampers are out there. Unless one knows what to look out for, and know the stamping fonts to a T, can guarantee even a 35 year technically savvy GTO owner can be fooled.
Pinion head is offline  
post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-08-2015, 09:48 AM
64-67 Expert
 
geeteeohguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fresno, California
Posts: 8,457
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Glad I don't need to buy any new GTO's!!! YIKES!!~ what will they fake next?
geeteeohguy is offline  
post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-08-2015, 11:50 AM
Former Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Lake Arrowhead, Ca.
Posts: 1,499
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeteeohguy View Post
Glad I don't need to buy any new GTO's!!! YIKES!!~ what will they fake next?
They can fake everything but the age and smell of 50 year old paper.
Goat Roper is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Pontiac GTO Forum > The 1964-1974 Pontiac Tempest, Lemans & GTO > 1964-1974 Tempest, LeMans & GTO Data Plate, Vin Tag and Drive Train Numbers

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Pontiac GTO Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1967 GTO Onwers Manual w/ Protect-O-Plate Steven's Toys 1964-1974 Tempest, LeMans & GTO Data Plate, Vin Tag and Drive Train Numbers 0 04-14-2013 02:14 PM
Pontiac Protect-o-plate 67 LeMans 4dr Cpe 1964-1974 Tempest, LeMans & GTO Data Plate, Vin Tag and Drive Train Numbers 7 12-03-2012 12:42 PM
65 Data Plate INfo the65gto 1964-1974 Tempest, LeMans & GTO Data Plate, Vin Tag and Drive Train Numbers 2 03-04-2012 08:27 AM
Protect-o-Plate LPTudor 1964-1974 Tempest, LeMans & GTO Data Plate, Vin Tag and Drive Train Numbers 12 08-29-2010 11:06 PM
Pontiac Protect-O-Plate ? classic_car_fan 1964-1974 Tempest, LeMans & GTO Data Plate, Vin Tag and Drive Train Numbers 6 04-23-2009 07:40 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome