1969 GTO Ram Air IV restoration - Pontiac GTO Forum
User Tag List

 1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
 
Zap69GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: California
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
1969 GTO Ram Air IV restoration

Hey everyone, I am new to the site and boy am I glad this forum exists.

I recently inherited a 1969 Pontiac GTO Ram IV. When I received the car, the engine was blown. I recently removed the engine and discovered two rods, and what appears to be pieces of a piston and cam in the oil pan. I did some research on the engine and discovered it was not the original engine block. The block was in my car was manufactured in 75’ (GM 400 V8). I am completely overwhelmed with all the options out there. What do you guys recommend doing? Start the painful process of finding a Ram Air IV engine or just throwing in something else? If so, what do you guys recommend? I am all ears and willing to explore all options. The car has a manual 4 speed transmission which appears to be in good condition and was operating just fine before the engine was blown approximately 1 year ago.

Here are the numbers on the block... not sure if I decoded it correctly.

75
A215
481988
0274675 YT

Thanks! Look forward to hearing the ideas

Last edited by Zap69GTO; 01-23-2018 at 12:01 AM. Reason: Engine numbers
Zap69GTO is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 09:28 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 601
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Which cylinder heads do you have on the car? How about intake, carb, distributor and exhaust manifolds? Part numbers will be fine...we can decode the numbers for you. Do you have the PHS documents for the car? Other than the block, how close to original is the car? Any photos to post?
Shake-N-Bake is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 09:45 PM
 
PontiacJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Gastonia, NC - Born & raised in Connecticut - 31 years
Posts: 3,545
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap69GTO View Post
Hey everyone, I am new to the site and boy am I glad this forum exists.

I recently inherited a 1969 Pontiac GTO Ram IV. When I received the car, the engine was blown. I recently removed the engine and discovered two rods, and what appears to be pieces of a piston and cam in the oil pan. I did some research on the engine and discovered it was not the original engine block. The block was in my car was manufactured in 75 (GM 400 V8). I am completely overwhelmed with all the options out there. What do you guys recommend doing? Start the painful process of finding a Ram Air IV engine or just throwing in something else? If so, what do you guys recommend? I am all ears and willing to explore all options. The car has a manual 4 speed transmission which appears to be in good condition and was operating just fine before the engine was blown approximately 1 year ago.

Thanks! Look forward to hearing the ideas

Yep, the 1975 and up blocks are weak due to thinner main saddles/caps. The only good blocks were the TransAm 400 blocks which were cast like the 1974 and earlier blocks to handle the power. So you want a 1974 or earlier block. 455CI are all good. You just want to make sure the motor mounts for the block you purchase will fit your engine cradle. This has been covered before on the forums and if you do a search you can read about it just to make sure.

Here is my take. If you can afford and find a RAIV block, it still won't be the original, so what's the use unless you are trying to do a concours restoration and then, have to find a dated block that would match the build date of your car. I am assuming just the block was changed out and you still have all the RAIV top end.

So next option is that you build it to keep and have fun with it. Decide what you want out of the car - daily driver (stock specs RAIV), weekend fun(hotter cam & few go fast goodies), street/strip(bigger cubes 400CI w/stroker kit = 461 CI, roller cam, better ignition) or any combo there of. The RAIV heads stay, as would the distributor, RAIV aluminum intake, Q-jet, exhaust manifolds, ie the top end.

Just my 2-cents.
PontiacJim is offline  
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
 
Zap69GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: California
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake-N-Bake View Post
Which cylinder heads do you have on the car? How about intake, carb, distributor and exhaust manifolds? Part numbers will be fine...we can decode the numbers for you. Do you have the PHS documents for the car? Other than the block, how close to original is the car? Any photos to post?
Thanks for the reply Shake-N-Bake.

Not sure what heads were on the car.

Holly Quadrajet carb

Aluminum high rise Edelbrock intake

I do have the PHS docs as well

I attached some pics for you to look at
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Rear.JPG
Views:	185
Size:	117.8 KB
ID:	102473   Click image for larger version

Name:	Oil pan.jpg
Views:	171
Size:	98.1 KB
ID:	102481   Click image for larger version

Name:	Oil Pan 2.jpg
Views:	181
Size:	96.5 KB
ID:	102489   Click image for larger version

Name:	Interior.JPG
Views:	174
Size:	99.7 KB
ID:	102497   Click image for larger version

Name:	Interior 2.JPG
Views:	174
Size:	104.6 KB
ID:	102505  

Zap69GTO is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
 
Zap69GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: California
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacJim View Post
Yep, the 1975 and up blocks are weak due to thinner main saddles/caps. The only good blocks were the TransAm 400 blocks which were cast like the 1974 and earlier blocks to handle the power. So you want a 1974 or earlier block. 455CI are all good. You just want to make sure the motor mounts for the block you purchase will fit your engine cradle. This has been covered before on the forums and if you do a search you can read about it just to make sure.

Here is my take. If you can afford and find a RAIV block, it still won't be the original, so what's the use unless you are trying to do a concours restoration and then, have to find a dated block that would match the build date of your car. I am assuming just the block was changed out and you still have all the RAIV top end.

So next option is that you build it to keep and have fun with it. Decide what you want out of the car - daily driver (stock specs RAIV), weekend fun(hotter cam & few go fast goodies), street/strip(bigger cubes 400CI w/stroker kit = 461 CI, roller cam, better ignition) or any combo there of. The RAIV heads stay, as would the distributor, RAIV aluminum intake, Q-jet, exhaust manifolds, ie the top end.

Just my 2-cents.

Thanks for the reply PontiacJim!

Definitely just looking to re-build for weekend fun! I appreciate all the advice. I attached some photos to my earlier reply to Shake-N-Bake if you're interested.
Zap69GTO is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-23-2018, 04:14 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 601
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap69GTO View Post
Thanks for the reply Shake-N-Bake.

Not sure what heads were on the car.

Holly Quadrajet carb

Aluminum high rise Edelbrock intake

I do have the PHS docs as well

I attached some pics for you to look at
Looks like a fun car. Can you post a photo of the dealer invoice? You can block out the VIN if you like....just want to see what options were ordered with the car. A photo of the center two exhaust ports of the cylinder head might tell is what we need to know. Can you snap a pic of that area?

I know of a SR RA IV block and set of cylinder heads for sale. I can send you the sellers info if you want to pursue those items...

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Shake-N-Bake is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-29-2018, 03:45 PM
 
clevelandpartsguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
shake-n- bake,

this is an old thread but I am talking to a guy about a 70' SR block lately, you mentioned a SR RA iv block. How would we know its a RA iv replacement? for 1970' the 9799915 casting and SR stamping would nail it down right? Assuming the 9915 was used only for RA iv production. what about if its a 9799914 and SR stamp? That leaves it open to being a RA iii or other replacement. Please tell me your expert thoughts on this.

thanks,
chuck
clevelandpartsguy is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-29-2018, 05:26 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Injun Territory, 'Merica!
Posts: 1,611
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Originally, a "real deal" SR 979991(5) or (9799915) block casting number, was seen as a fitted 400 4bolt main block (fitted with forged TRW pistons). Once July of '70 came along, the base '70 400 9799914 casting was no more, so no more factory "wiped" last digit and correct font stamped 5. the new casting number 481988 for '71 models, had to be changed and stamped with the full 9799915 "casting" number when factory machined and assembled as a SR fitted block for previous 400 4 bolt usage.

As a real deal zone rep signed off on service replacement, a 9799915 fitted block would have been used as a warranty piece in a '70 RAIV car. Quite a few others were signed off on and used as '69 RAIV warranty fitted blocks. Many were used as SR's in non RAIV applications too, like '70 RAIII cars. Even more fitted SR 400's sat around into the 1980's at GM parts distribution centers, eventully falling into the hands of parts cleaners/vendors, racers, and collectors.
Pinion head is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-29-2018, 07:02 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 601
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by clevelandpartsguy View Post
shake-n- bake,

this is an old thread but I am talking to a guy about a 70' SR block lately, you mentioned a SR RA iv block. How would we know its a RA iv replacement? for 1970' the 9799915 casting and SR stamping would nail it down right? Assuming the 9915 was used only for RA iv production. what about if its a 9799914 and SR stamp? That leaves it open to being a RA iii or other replacement. Please tell me your expert thoughts on this.

thanks,
chuck
I would agree with your statement if the block also has 4 bolt main caps. In my opinion, a 4 bolt block with 9799914 cast and SR stamp would originally be intended as a replacement for 1970 RA III or standard manual (WT) applications because that block would have originally be machined and fitted with cast pistons.

If your car is a 1970 L67 and you are looking for a replacement engine block, you have several choices the way I see it. Order of preference is subjective....but my priority list would go something like this...(assuming of course the original partial VIN stamped engine is no longer available)

1. Documented 9799915 SR block. NOS, standard bore, with fitted forged pistons, dye marks, SR tag etc. New, never used.
2. Same as above, used. May require overbore.
3. Reclaimed 9799915 block from donor RA IV car. Can be documented by partial VIN and PHS docs. Would need the correct 2 letter code for your application.
4a. Undocumented 9799915 SR block. This would be a 4 bolt block with the 979991 numbers cast and the last digit ground and stamped 5 or could even have all digits ground and stamped. There is a specific font for these digits.
4b. Same as #3 with any of the remaining 2 letter codes

Opinions vary of course. The reason why I place #1 and #2 above #3 is because a documented SR block COULD be correct for ANY 1970 L67 car. Block #3 is only correct for one specific car. The application is correct for your car but since it has a partial VIN...it really is only correct for that particular car. However....the partial VIN documents it as a L67 application so it would place higher than an undocumented SR block in my opinion.

Block choices 4a and 4b are about the same in my opinion.

I have an undocumented SR block for my 1968 L67 car. Its cast date is Dec 1969 so it was surely a 9799914 casting. That number was ground and stamped 9792506 and has an SR number. Is it correct for my application? Could be. However, it could also have been a 9799914 SR 4 bolt block intended for 1970 RA III or WT applications or maybe a 9799915 block and someone later ground off the numbers and restamped 9792506. Font looks correct but without documentation it is anyone's guess. In my case the engine came with the car when I bought it but that doesn't really prove anything since I have no documentation to validate. It would be nice if someone discovers some sort of tracking log or audit sheet for all the SR numbers for each year. If that were to happen, I suspect it would expose quite a few blocks as altered.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Shake-N-Bake is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-30-2018, 01:03 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: North Louisiana
Posts: 545
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
"...the 1975 and up blocks are weak due to thinner main saddles/caps..."

This brings a question to mind. Some online info says that some early '75 models used the older 481988 block. But, there is so much bad info, online, I was just wondering if pinion head, or anyone else has run across any '75 models which came with a 481988 block ?

Wallace Racing's Pontiac Engine Search

http://www.teufert.net/pontiac/bloccast.htm
bigD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Pontiac GTO Forum > The 1964-1974 Pontiac Tempest, Lemans & GTO > 1964-1974 Tempest, Lemans & GTO Complete Engine Compartment Discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Pontiac GTO Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1969 gto ram air 3 correct radiator code hammerhd1 1964-1974 Tempest, LeMans & GTO Data Plate, Vin Tag and Drive Train Numbers 2 12-09-2016 06:50 PM
1969 gto ram air iii whats it worth ? BIGRED 1964-1974 Tempest, Lemans & GTO General Discussion 2 11-05-2014 11:28 AM
1969 GTO ram air iv car need engine waterfire69 1964-1974 Tempest, Lemans & GTO Complete Engine Compartment Discussion 5 09-17-2012 04:46 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome