Help!!67 gto upgrade advise needed. - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-19-2018, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
 
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Help!!67 gto upgrade advise needed.

So i had some lifter tick a year or two ago and ended up installing a new lifter. The one i removed was pretty worn and i believe my cam is also. It is starting to tick again.With that being said can i have the cam, lifters and pushrods replaced without doing any head work or anything else? I believe my original 400 engine is stock but not 100 percent sure. Will the old cam have clues to what it is? Just wondering what to expect labor and cost wise. Also would like to install a 5 speed. Currently have a dearborn 3 speed and 355:1 diff gears with a one wheel peel. Will these gears work with a 5 speed and can it be made a posi. Thanks in advance for any advise. Art
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-20-2018, 06:56 AM
 
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1. Yes. Or no. Depends on the condition of the rest of the engine. At the very least you want to change the timing set. You don't need to pull the heads to replace the cam, but you've got the engine that far apart why not do new head gaskets at the same time? And while the heads are off, look at the valve train. Maybe new valve seals to replace the 50 year old ones. See how this can get away from you?

2. I believe a 5 or 6 speed swap will require tunnel mods.

3. You should be able to install a posi set in your case. 'should'.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-20-2018, 12:51 PM
 
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If you replace the cam, but not the valve springs, don't go any bigger than an 068 clone. It still has just barely over .400 lift. An 067 or 066 clone might be even safer. The Melling SPC-7 is an 068 clone.

https://www.autozone.com/internal-en...07135_705947_0

The SPC-5 is a milder & cheaper(from Amazon/Ebay).

https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...tegory:1234841

https://www.amazon.com/Melling-SPC-5.../dp/B000C4KLDK

If you want a slightly bigger cam, you can go with CC 988-16 springs(if your installed height is about 1.6"). Springs can be installed with the heads on the engine. But you'll have to hold the valves up, either with compressed air or by feeding a nylon rope into the cylinder, thru the spark plug hole, then holding it up against the valves, with the top of the piston.

The Cloyes C3007k is one of the cheapest timing sets available.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...kaAqI1EALw_wcB

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engine-Timi...oAAOSwLsBZVJl0

https://www.amazon.com/Cloyes-C3007K.../dp/B000C0AJKY

Some say the Melling 3-350S is a better quality set.

https://www.amazon.com/Melling-3-350.../dp/B000C4KH3O

"..Just wondering what to expect labor and cost wise..."

I have no idea what the labor cost would be. A good Pontiac friend, with the skill to do this would probably be the cheapest labor. Lots of shops charge more than $50 per hour for labor.

Last edited by bigD; 02-20-2018 at 01:47 PM.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-20-2018, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the quick reply guys. I did not know much about this motor when i got the car. owners family sold it for him while in jail. ran good no smoke no issues except for the lifter. Been eight to ten years. put about two thousand miles on it myself. Timing gears and chain make sense. A 066 or a 067 would suit me fine. Would the old cam give any clues to what it is? One last question. Is it necessary to change cam bearings?
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-20-2018, 09:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RMTZ67 View Post
Thanks for the quick reply guys. I did not know much about this motor when i got the car. owners family sold it for him while in jail. ran good no smoke no issues except for the lifter. Been eight to ten years. put about two thousand miles on it myself. Timing gears and chain make sense. A 066 or a 067 would suit me fine. Would the old cam give any clues to what it is? One last question. Is it necessary to change cam bearings?
If on a budget, just go with the cam & lifters and new double roller timing chain and gears. In 1967, the 067 is stock for the 335HP engine in 1967 and the 068 is stock for the 360HP engine.

No need to change cam bearings, just be careful removing and installing the cam so as not to damage/nick the bearings. Put a little oil on the journals and just take your time. You will have to break in the cam just as a new engine would, so follow the cam manufacturers recommendations for cam lube and break-in procedures.

The cam presently in the car, if original Pontiac, will have a letter code on the front snout where the timing gear goes on. The letter will ID the cam. 067 will be "P", 068 will be "S".

5-speed conversion is not inexpensive. You will have to modify your trans tunnel if going with the TKO 5-speed as it is bigger in case size and longer in length. The McLeod 5-speed says you don't have to modify the floor. To determine if the 3.55's will work for you, use one of the RPM/MPH online calculators. The TKO has 2 OD choices.

The Dearborn 3-speed is a good heavy duty trans and I have had a couple. I like them. Negative side is that you just don't have that extra gear to drop down into if doing a little street racing when someone comes up on you and you are going to fast to drop into second, but too low an RPM to pull away fast. Great from a stop.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-20-2018, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the info pontiacJim. I am with you on the dearborn good for 1/4 mile but around town or short highway cruise not so good. So I may just go with a 4 speed and save money and labor. plan on mostly in town cruise but would like some get up and go in 2/3. anyone have suggestions for a 4 speed trans? currently stock 400 w/ 355 rear gears 17" wheels. muncie or t10?
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-20-2018, 10:46 PM
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That leaves the question of what caused your ticking problem in the first place? Which oil are you running? Flat tappet cams need oil with good ZDDP content (a zinc compound) and very few oils have it these days. If you're not using the 'right' oil, you could find yourself having to go through all this again very soon..

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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I have been using vavoline vr1 racing oil. 30 wt I believe. which brings up another question. do i need a additive in my fuel?
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 07:27 PM
 
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I have been using vavoline vr1 racing oil. 30 wt I believe. which brings up another question. do i need a additive in my fuel?
If you have the stock 10.5 compression, you will need high octane racing gas or an additive. One reason why most will rebuild their engines w/iron heads to run on pump gas with the ethanol in it and lower compression to a more pump friendly 9:1 compression. This seems to be best and you might go up to 9.5 with 93 octane if you have it available. 10.5 and you need racing gas/additives. If you don't drive it much, then racing gas might be justified. If you drive it a whole lot, racing gas and additives can get expensive. If you experience detonation, you can damage/destroy the engine.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-22-2018, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by 64GTOConvertible View Post
1. Yes. Or no. Depends on the condition of the rest of the engine. At the very least you want to change the timing set. You don't need to pull the heads to replace the cam, but you've got the engine that far apart why not do new head gaskets at the same time? And while the heads are off, look at the valve train. Maybe new valve seals to replace the 50 year old ones. See how this can get away from you?

2. I believe a 5 or 6 speed swap will require tunnel mods.

3. You should be able to install a posi set in your case. 'should'.
64 GTO I was rereading my post on the cam subject and came across your post. "See how this can get away from you" I was gonna start pulling my engine to look over my cam for replacement. Parts purchased so far. New fuel pump, new water pump,double timing chain, Full felpro gasket set, New oil pump since I am going to replace the pan gasket.Magnetic oil pan plug. New 2 ton engine hoist (possibly resell afterwords) And possibly a new engine stand if i cant find a used one. I will probably put new head gaskets like you said. And still have not got to the Cam!!!! But let me ask you something. after I find out what cam I have. I am thinking of a roller cam set because the thought of breaking in a cam scares me. I had one go south on me a few years back in my camaro. Did all the right things??? The engine builder was kind enough to redo it. (Long story) Anyway, If i find its stock 067 cam. Do you know of a full roller kit i could use.I rebuilt a few engines (stock) in my teens. but don't know much about rollers other than it aint cheap. roller cam,lifters,springs,pushrods. Any help is appreciated.Whew. Thanks Art
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