Enough 0 - Mullet Talk, This isn't an F-Body - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-03-2005, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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Enough 0 - Mullet Talk, This isn't an F-Body

Hey does anyone on this forum do anything besides stand on the gas pedal and hold the wheel straight?

For all of the proclamations that the FBods suck and the GTO is way better, it seems that all of the conversation is about more power (Headers, CAI, Computer Tuners, etc.) and 0-60 times. Sounds like mullet-bonics to me.

Anybody ever try turning the wheel? That can be fun too.

The GTO has a great ride and what I would call dead handling. Some may use the word neutral but I think of it as dead. When you're sliding through a corner, it will rotate only as long as you're on the throttle. When you lift off the gas, the rotation stops. No oversteer, no sudden understeer. Very predictable, no drama. I can see why the drifting crowd loves this car. This is in contrast to a Corvette I owned which could get sideways unexpectedly an the wrong moment. And let's not forget the pendulum with wheels called 911.

With the above said, has anyone investigated handling improvements? A little more turn-in and stiffness would be nice if it didn't degrade the ride too much or hurt the power slide behavior.

Also, I imagine the stock tires could be improved upon.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-03-2005, 04:05 PM
 
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I may be wrong, but I don't think you've actually driven a car that handles. If you think the GTO is a neutral handling vehicle, you're flat out insane.

It's not a great drift car, the power steering can't react quick enough to back and forth movements, and the LSD makes tight, low speed maneuvers damn near impossible. It's frustrating at an autocross coming out of a low speed corner, getting back in the throttle, and having the inside wheel go up in smoke.

When driven hard in an autocross setting, or even road course duties, it has a tendency to push... bad! It has an enormous amount of body roll, which is actually very suprising to me. The brakes suck, you can't stop, and they get hot fast. You really can't expect a 4000lb car to handle like a lotus though!

As far as modifying the suspension, there are finally some aftermarket pieces coming out that are pretty decent. I know Koni makes a nice shock now, BMR, Hotchkis, and others make sway bars, sub-frame connectors and the like. But I think this site is mostly dedicated to the drag racer, and the car show type guys, which is fine!

I'm not hating here at all, but I do know I'm behind the 8-ball trying to get my car nationally competitive in SCCA competition. I have a set of Hawk pads waiting to be installed, I will be purchasing race tires this week or next (Kumho V710 ofcourse) and I am looking at the HAL shocks that Tbyrne has... though he hasn't shot me a price yet!

Anyways, I suggest getting a new set of tires for your car, and a set of Koni shocks. It will be a start to a good handling car!
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-03-2005, 04:36 PM
 
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Do you need to upgrade both sway bars to help flatten the car out in turns, or will just an upgradee rear sway bar do the trick if you change to urethane bushings in the front?
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-03-2005, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteshadow
I may be wrong, but I don't think you've actually driven a car that handles. If you think the GTO is a neutral handling vehicle, you're flat out insane.

It's not a great drift car, the power steering can't react quick enough to back and forth movements, and the LSD makes tight, low speed maneuvers damn near impossible. It's frustrating at an autocross coming out of a low speed corner, getting back in the throttle, and having the inside wheel go up in smoke.

When driven hard in an autocross setting, or even road course duties, it has a tendency to push... bad! It has an enormous amount of body roll, which is actually very suprising to me. The brakes suck, you can't stop, and they get hot fast. You really can't expect a 4000lb car to handle like a lotus though!

As far as modifying the suspension, there are finally some aftermarket pieces coming out that are pretty decent. I know Koni makes a nice shock now, BMR, Hotchkis, and others make sway bars, sub-frame connectors and the like. But I think this site is mostly dedicated to the drag racer, and the car show type guys, which is fine!

I'm not hating here at all, but I do know I'm behind the 8-ball trying to get my car nationally competitive in SCCA competition. I have a set of Hawk pads waiting to be installed, I will be purchasing race tires this week or next (Kumho V710 ofcourse) and I am looking at the HAL shocks that Tbyrne has... though he hasn't shot me a price yet!

Anyways, I suggest getting a new set of tires for your car, and a set of Koni shocks. It will be a start to a good handling car!
Sorry your brakes suck. Unfortunately, GM left some opportunity for improvement in the 04. Try trading up to an 05. The brakes don't suck and it is pretty neutral. It does understeer at the limit but that's safer than oversteer (911).

As for LSD....finesse may help rather than just tromping the pedal and expecting traction to hold. Again, the 05's additional power and torque allows a little more room to operate.

You're right, the GTO at 3,725 pounds will never handle like a Honda S2000 or a Lancer Evo or a Vette. It's more of a Grand Tourer, not a sports car. But then I'm not looking for a competition car. Race tires aren't a very bright solution for the street. I'm looking for a little better handling feel without destroying the nice ride of the GTO.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-03-2005, 08:58 PM
 
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I don't even know why anyone would complain much about the handling on the 05 goat, I would have to say it's pretty darn good considering what you paid for the car. If you really want nice road course performance for the car, strip out some things you wouldn't need for such... like the extra seats. Then get some good tires like nitto's or something of equivalence, and find out about getting the suspension upgraded. Sure this car isn't a Lotus but it isn't as expensive either.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-03-2005, 09:15 PM
 
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The Current #1 rated Drift Car Driver of the Formula Drift series,Rhys Millen Drives a GTO

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-03-2005, 09:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing_Nut
Sorry your brakes suck. Unfortunately, GM left some opportunity for improvement in the 04. Try trading up to an 05. The brakes don't suck and it is pretty neutral. It does understeer at the limit but that's safer than oversteer (911).

As for LSD....finesse may help rather than just tromping the pedal and expecting traction to hold. Again, the 05's additional power and torque allows a little more room to operate.

You're right, the GTO at 3,725 pounds will never handle like a Honda S2000 or a Lancer Evo or a Vette. It's more of a Grand Tourer, not a sports car. But then I'm not looking for a competition car. Race tires aren't a very bright solution for the street. I'm looking for a little better handling feel without destroying the nice ride of the GTO.
When it comes to the LSD, I still believe it's a very ****ty LSD. My driving style is very smooth, though at times autocrossing requires a very aggressive drive. It wouldn't matter, it lights up one tire, not both. Our '99 Corvette doesn't have this problem, which is tough to get used to when switching cars.

No, race tires are a horrible solution for the street, but a more aggressive street tire may do the trick, like the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2s.

I guess I was just hoping for a more nimble, agile car than what I have! The car definitely feels like it weighs 4000lbs.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-03-2005, 09:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing_Nut
Hey does anyone on this forum do anything besides stand on the gas pedal and hold the wheel straight?

For all of the proclamations that the FBods suck and the GTO is way better, it seems that all of the conversation is about more power (Headers, CAI, Computer Tuners, etc.) and 0-60 times. Sounds like mullet-bonics to me.

Anybody ever try turning the wheel? That can be fun too.

The GTO has a great ride and what I would call dead handling. Some may use the word neutral but I think of it as dead. When you're sliding through a corner, it will rotate only as long as you're on the throttle. When you lift off the gas, the rotation stops. No oversteer, no sudden understeer. Very predictable, no drama. I can see why the drifting crowd loves this car. This is in contrast to a Corvette I owned which could get sideways unexpectedly an the wrong moment. And let's not forget the pendulum with wheels called 911.

With the above said, has anyone investigated handling improvements? A little more turn-in and stiffness would be nice if it didn't degrade the ride too much or hurt the power slide behavior.

Also, I imagine the stock tires could be improved upon.
with your first paragraph. To focus primarily on the drag racing capabilities of the GTO is to miss out on everything else it does well. I'm no expert on drag racing or autocrossing but I have a LOT of fun driving mine everywhere I go, and it rides better than a 3-series or anything Japanese, no offense intended. A few $$$ in the right areas and a GTO becomes world-class for far less money. The car wasn't meant to be the fastest or best-handling car on the road but the combination of power, handling, comfort and interior space can't be beat by anything anywhere close to the price. I know, I shopped everything before I bought my '05. And I'm looking forward to continuing with a few tweeks to personalize it.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-03-2005, 11:27 PM
 
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I laugh at drag racers.

I have mocked them repeatedly.

However, this car is pretty much a boat when compared to my old 3-series cars, an E30 and a E46.

Calling the handling "dead" is accurate. I really miss that steering response of my Bimmers sometimes. That being said, the thrust of the GTO rocks.

My Threes were scalpels; my Holden is a hammer.


Last edited by Groucho; 07-04-2005 at 02:23 PM.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-04-2005, 01:53 PM
 
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0-whatever is fun and I wouldn't take a car with less power to the wheels. However, much more of the money I have spent modding this car has been directed at the suspension. This is car is a Grand Tourer and I wanted to maximize that without making it unpleasant to ride in. I have the Z06 for retina detatching acceleration, both linear and lateral.

2004 Pulse Red GTO M6 - New Era CAI, TB Bypass, CAGS, Custom Split Exhaust, SLP Sway Bar & Bushings, BMR Strut Brace, HID, Sans Spoiler, Sirius

2002 Quicksilver Z06 - A Few Upgrades

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