Difference in 10% eth vs. 15%, WTF? - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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Difference in 10% eth vs. 15%, WTF?

The other day I filled at Hess & they had a sticker on the premium pump stating 10% ethynol.
Now, unless I'm wrong, our cars can't run E85 or else it'll damage the fuel system. So is 5% that much of a big deal between the 2?
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 01:05 PM
 
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E 85 is 85% Ethanol, 15 Gasoline. Since MTBE was outlawed, most gasoline manufacturers are using a 10% Ethanol blend to oxygenate their fuel...

On a side note, I did try E85 in a small amount once. Car ran fine, but the emissions computer didn't like what was coming out the pipe. I just filled up with regular gasoline and everything was fine.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 01:17 PM
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A week ago, I filled up with 89 oct. that read 15% E-85..... I drove bout 190 miles and couldn't tell the difference.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by The_Goat
E 85 is 85% Ethanol, 15 Gasoline. Since MTBE was outlawed, most gasoline manufacturers are using a 10% Ethanol blend to oxygenate their fuel...

On a side note, I did try E85 in a small amount once. Car ran fine, but the emissions computer didn't like what was coming out the pipe. I just filled up with regular gasoline and everything was fine.
Oh, I thought it was the other way around, never mind
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 04:10 PM
 
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The National Ethanol Coilition states the following: E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline, that is for easier starting. So E10 is 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline. There is a lot of misinformation about the use of ethanol. It is hard to sort it all out. A long time ago the car manufacturers stated that one can not run any more than E10 in our cars. The reasons included a variety of problems that would occur. BUT, then the manufacturers admitted that it was Methanol not Ethanol that caused the problem. As far as I know no one is using Methanol only Ethanol. Now back to the subject at hand, ethanol is 100 octane. It naturally increases the octane of any gas it is added to. On the other hand it contains less BTU's so it will take more alcohol to run a car than gasoline, meaning your mileage will drop about 1-2%. Alcohol burns cleaner and cooler than gasoline, so our engine internals aren't exposed to as many nasty chemicals. This I know for sure. The computer has to be flashed to burn E85. Beyond that I do not know, it is very confusing. Early data suggested that a constant exposure of Neoprene, (gasket material) to alcohol deteriorates the gasket. Now was that Methanol or Ethanol?? No one is talking about that anymore. AT one time I heard that intake and exhaust valves would have to be replaced because alcohol burns hotter, BULL! It is the other way around. Soo, the last I have heard is it is very expensive for current engines to be recertified for multiple fuels because of the EPA standards and that is the MAIN reason that manufacturers have not condoned the use of alcohol in our cars. Point: Some of my racing buddies have used alcohol for years in their engines....... As more pressure is put on manufacturers I think we will see aftermarket kits available similar to the buzz around propane and some computer geeks will get busy and develop a reflash for our cars increasing the volume of fuel, air-fuel mixture and change in the timing. Do it yourself.... purchase a gallon of E85, take it home, purchase a neoprene gasket and soak the gasket in the E85.... see what happens. If nothing happens, then possibly the only thing we need is a reflash of the computer. Oh yes, someone in a local dealership mentioned that they thought the muliple fuel cars had a stainless steel gas tank. I don't know, that one does not make sense. I think there is a lot of misinformation out there trying to get us to buy new. Sound familiar?
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 05:09 PM
 
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Just found a site that give info on alcohol conversion. www.running_on_alcohol.com. It basically says that there may some metal corruption, but everything else is OK. I also includes an article written by Mother Earth News on alcohol conversion. Interesting.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO judge
A week ago, I filled up with 89 oct. that read 15% E-85..... I drove bout 190 miles and couldn't tell the difference.
Hey Judge,
That's pretty good mileage man...How you pulling that off!

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPO's GTO
Hey Judge,
That's pretty good mileage man...How you pulling that off!
Much coasting.... LOL

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006, 09:37 AM
 
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I looked into what it would take to convert the GTO to run on E85 and I found out from numerous sources that it is ILLEGAL to modify the fuel system to run on a fuel not originally meant for the car. That sucks... I also was under the impression that any alcohol is very corrosive so all rubber parts and some metal ones have to be converted to stainless steel.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006, 10:08 AM
 
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It is also illegal to remove the cats, etc. Unless you live in a state with smog police, there is no way to determine. Yes, every car has to be certified by the EPA to run on a fuel, but that does not mean it won't work. In the article I mentioned, the fella recommended that you take components of your car and throw them into E85 for 30 days and see if they deterioriate. Additionally, they did the research on different plastics and gasket material, again most of it is OK. Did you ever get the feeling that corporate doesn't want you to change to alternataive fuels, rather buy a new car ???

I went back to the article, most plastics tolerate alcohol quite well. Some areas of concern: In the fuel tank, the float may be plastic. Few metals anymore are corrosive. Before 1970, most of the fuel lines were stainless steel and brass anyway. This is frustrating.

OMG, I just did a lengthy search and found a company that uses a teflon based polymer to prep your car for alcohol. the site is www.flexteck.com or "XcelPlus International", Inc on your search engine. I have purchased their DVD and put in an email for info on the LS2/GTO. This is getting interesting.

Last edited by UdnUdnGTO; 09-01-2006 at 03:13 PM.
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