It's official, Toyota has lost it's way - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 81 (permalink) Old 12-28-2006, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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It's official, Toyota has lost it's way

In a previous post I noted the troubles Toyota has had with having to recall cars. That was one car from every model it made for year 2006. Also in 2005 they recalled more trucks than Ford, if you can believe that.

I got my Car & Driver for Feb 2007 and there is an article on six family four doors. They tested the Chrysler Sebring, Toyota Camry, Kia Optima, Nissan Altima, Saturn Aura, and the Honda Accord. They used 4cyl automatics for this test, since that is the way most are sold, the Saturn had a 6 since that is the only way it comes.

Chrysler Sebring was 6th. This was mostly due to it being designed for the AARP crowd.
Toyota Camry took 5th. Car & Driver put it this way, "Toyota sedans have never throbbed with passion, but at least they could boast of unimpeachable quality. This Camry was impeachable. A few trim pieces hung loose. Some dash panels didn't match up. The rear seat cup holder fell out with only the slightest persuasion, leaving behind a ragged hole in the fabric. If fit and finish ceases to be Toyota's obsession, what will define the company's products? We shudder to imagine. "

The Saturn 4th, Kia 3rd, Nissan 2nd and the Accord won.

Toyota is in the same place GM was going into the 80's. They are the marque to beat, and they are starting to beat themselves.
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post #2 of 81 (permalink) Old 12-28-2006, 10:33 PM
 
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Toyota could die out. I would'nt have any nightmares.
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post #3 of 81 (permalink) Old 12-28-2006, 10:34 PM
 
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But is sure would be a shame to lose all that cutting edge styling.
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post #4 of 81 (permalink) Old 12-28-2006, 11:58 PM
 
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I'll consider Toyota better than ford when the start production on a supra again or even a decent mr2....aAaActually.....no I wouldn't
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post #5 of 81 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 02:04 AM
 
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Isn't everything cyclicle in the business world, it's Toyota's turn to hit the bottom of the curve.
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post #6 of 81 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 11:13 AM
 
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I'm very proud to say that I have NEVER owned a Toyota
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post #7 of 81 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 11:36 AM
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Toyota has been in the forefront of quality for a long period of time. Like it or not that's a fact.

Jap cars, and quality have been maligned since their beginning when their quality was poor. The Jap vision was not to gain overnight success but to build on it and provide a high quality product that would in time provide a superior product. Americans in general want what they want NOW, and worry about next year later. We are not a society that wants to wait for anything. Instant gratification is our way of life. This is the predicament many people fall in to i.e. credit cards. The I want it now but will pay for it later mentality has many people in debt up to their eyeballs. Toyota built a reputation that IS associated with quality and this did not happen overnight.

Many people hate Jap cars cause dad did. They grew up in a house where Rice burners were to blame for everything from auto workers being laid off, to loss of market share for automakers, to poor american made cars, and trucks. There is a reason for gains in market share, most of it is quality. What's funny is Toyota has been and is still building plants in the U.S. where their product is being built by Americans but still the rice burner nametag persists. Yeah Toyota is based in Japan, but most of everything anyone buys is based outside the U.S.A. anymore.

Harley Davidson boasted about their 100% MADE IN AMERICA pride. Their bolts come, or did come from Japan. They were exposed by a news magazine when the big anti Japanese campaign was going on.

There is a distinct hatred for Japanese cars, particularly Toyota. Why? Toyota is a threat, (the biggest threat) we all hate threats, and view a threat as an enemy force. GM has seen Toyota advancing on their market share but they failed to stop it despite Toyota's recalls which EVERY auto manufacturer goes through at one time or another, particularly FORD who is notorious for recalls.

What got me sold on Toyota quality started when I got a 1974 Hilux pick-up, 10th owner and it was beat. It ran like a champ never a problem. Traded it for a 1983 Toyota pick up. I drove that off the lot and returned 5 yrs later with NOT ONE Warranty claim or other service problem. I traded that on a 1988 4 Runner 4x4 which I still have. The only thing that ever took other than normal maintenance was a head gasket. It has 99 K miles on it and runs like new. This is my quality experience with Toyota. With a track record of what I described why would I NOT consider another Toyota? Multiply that by millions of satisfied customers and it's not hard to realize why Toyota has become number 1. The only blame I can put on Toyota is blaming them for high quality.

Hate what I wrote, argue about it, or despise it, the fact is you cannot discount Toyota's track record. It got them the number 1 spot. Toyota is building their full size Tundra's in Texas, American Built. Many other of their cars are built in the U.S.A. now. Do we dare blame the recalls on products built on American soil, or labor? After all, when all Toyota's were built in Japan, rarely was their a recall. Most recalls are for defective parts, not labor problems. This happens to all involved in assemblies of cars, trucks, lawnmowers, gas grills, etc. But when Toyota has a recall, man o days the world stops and looks to see what has happened. Despite that Toyota has become number 1.

Maybe since GM has been dethroned, perhaps this will incite them enough to regain it.

This is my thoughts on this and I'm stickin' to it.

Sorry for the long windbagged post guys my short hand is not good.

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post #8 of 81 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 11:57 AM
 
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I disagree GTO_Judge. Toyota themselves says they have a quality problem.

The situation has alarmed Toyota's top executives and angered the Japanese government. It ordered Toyota to explain itself, which it did in a report delivered Thursday, borne by the latest in a series of apologies by Japan's biggest auto company. In it, the company promised to create a new computer database to obtain information more quickly from dealers on repairs and complaints. Inside Toyota, the spate of recalls has triggered a flurry of high-level efforts to diagnose and fix the problems, which have afflicted everything from its treasured Prius hybrid, which has become the gold standard among fuel-efficient vehicles, to the small Tacoma pickup and even cars in its Lexus luxury lineup.


You are right that people still perceive Toyota to be a well made product. My last car was a Toyota Matrix. It rattled more than any car I've ever owned. It was my first Toyota and I was surprised by the poor build quality.

The main issue Ford and GM need to overcome is the perception quality gap. IMO, the actual quality gap has been closed.

I do think Toyota will fix there issues before it tarnishes their reputation. That is where GM and Ford failed. They took way to long to make their car better.
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post #9 of 81 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 12:01 PM
 
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The reason I can't stand Toyotas is because ignorant people buy them. They buy them because they think they're the "safe" buy -- and ignore the fact they're ugly, slow, brake poorly and handle like crap. And even though Toyota's quality is already in the toilet, their buyers have already concluded "Toyota good, domestic bad" and buy those awful Camrys, Corollas, Siennas etc. even when the facts tell them otherwise.

Our local newspaper's car editor bashed the GTO when it came out. Used the word "ugly" to describe it. So what's his 2006 car of the year? The Camry -- which looks like a manatee with a T logo on the tip of its snout. His truck of the year? The absolutely hideous and completely useless FJ.

Think that guy is biased toward imports and against domestic product? You tell me.
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post #10 of 81 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 12:21 PM
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Everyone has their own ideas on this topic. Coming from my experience with Toyota, I associate them OVERALL with a good quality product. Just about everything now is being made as cheaply as possible, and with it comes consequences. Toyota's problems are now surfacing.

I could slam Chevy for the poor quality Monte Carlo I had, or Dodge for the problems I had with my RAM. When I compare every vehicle I ever had: Ford, GM, and Toyota there is no comparison with Toyota's quality. But I have not purchased one since 1988.

Now my GTO, and wife's Grand-AM on the other hand, is second to none in quality. I've had 3 Pontiac's now and all have been complaint free.

I am not a big fan of Toyota, nor do I hate them. I can only speak from experience from the 3 I owned and not one complaint.

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Last edited by GTO JUDGE; 12-29-2006 at 01:04 PM.
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