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Dan's 69 Restore Tale

150K views 831 replies 38 participants last post by  GTOTIGR 
#1 · (Edited)
**EDIT ** Trying to fix pics... 02-28-2019

Hi all,

Earlier this summer, 4th of July to be exact (literally on the 4th she arrived from Florida) I became another one of those guys in a long long line of guys when I full-filled a life-long dream of owning a muscle car I grew up working on with my Dad. I learned most of what I know from Dad and those era cars – I’ve always coveted them as many others before me.

There she is Ms. Muscle car (la la la)

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No, she is not a real Judge and she won’t be branded as such when I’m done. I do have to admit is it fun watching people drool or flip out when they see her. One guy stopped at the house and started shaking because he was standing next to a judge… I did’t have the heart to tell him otherwise.

So enough about me – you are reading this because you like these cars. I plan to “restore” this ride to its former glory but I have a lot of decisions to make and some work to do so I can drive her with confidence – which I don’t have now. I will be doing all the work myself (mostly) – I’m partly a self taught car guy, outside if what Dad tough me of course. This won’t be my first restore but my largest and most detailed for sure!

On to the car… I found her in Florida. She was built and bought in Fremont California and moved to Florida later in life where I found her through a mutual acquaintance with the previous owner. I knew she had some issues when I bought her – it was not sight unseen but her body is near perfect with no “bondo” – meaning nothing more than a skim coat for straightness and no “repairs. I was disappointed to find out the truck lid had been replaced by a Lemans or Tempest lid – the filler spots have come loose in the old emblem holes. Since I have the touch of a bull in a china shop and not much welding experience I’ll have a professional do that bit of work.

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Sporting a numbers matching drive train (engine, trans and all) with only 66K miles and a color change 20 years ago from Gold-n-Gold to Black-n-white she is pretty clean and has all original parts including the seat covers which were dyed not replaced – save the non-factory radio. My first dilemma, do I restore her to factory colors and all, stick with the current color scheme or change it to my favorite color Verdoro green? I know she’ll be worth more casheesh in original colors but I’m not a fan of the gold-n-gold. That being said the color decision can wait as my first concern is to make her road worthy mechanically.

She has these options:
1. Working factory A/C
2. Auto trans
3. Remote trunk release
4. Glove box light
5. Courtesy lights.
6. Front disc brakes
7. Shoulder belts
8. windshield antenna


First question: what would you guys do color wise?

So... Saturday I started on the brakes.

I was told the brakes had just been done but I was puzzled why they were so hard to apply. I figured they had air in them and simple bloodletting was in order.

I opened them up to see new wheel cylinders in the rear... and lots of rust, actually a puzzling amount of rust for a California/Florida car. Ok, so the brakes were done (including a booster and master cylinder). Now I'm doubly puzzled...

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I begin to work on them and this is what I find when I pulled the brake ram... leaking wheel cylinders!!! Actually I was shocked to find then FULL of water!!!!

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So, off to the local parts mecca.... Then when I started to put them back together I had this start happening....

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Yes, ALL the springs were bent up and/or snapped as I pulled on them to rebuild the brakes... BACK to the parts store... obviously I had all original brake springs and all too.



Some parts were pretty rusty, I debated on soaking them in vinegar and hitting this with a wire wheel but I wanted to get it back on the road sooner than that would take so I used a wire wheel to clean them up... I’ll attack the wheel housings and such when I do the real restore as this is just the mechanical restore.

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Yea, my toes are pictures whores just like me. I hope you guys like pictures because they are my bag. :)

More to come because of limited photos per post...
 
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1
#39 ·
My first project on my car has taught me many lessons already.

1. Don’t rely on the guy at that place when ordering parts. Figure out what part you need and tell them the part number. They are just order takers not deep thinkers or listeners.

It took three times to get the proper front brake line kit and that was even after I called to confirm the following day.

2. Test fit parts right away. Don’t wait until the planned “install” day to find out they aren’t right. Also helps you find out about any adjustments you may need to make everything fit.

Same issue as above, the guy sent the wrong part even after telling me the right part number for my distribution block.

Also, said replacement Rear View Mirror was NOT as advertised being .5 inches shorter and the day/night feature didn’t work.

3. Now I know why frame off restores are “common” after you start looking at your ride. Projects are much easier when the body is off so you can do “while I’m under here projects” much easier/faster.

Although my first foray into brake hard line replacement went faster/easier than I expected it took some fancy maneuvering of a lines including a six foot line to get it installed. They flex quite a bit and are fairly forgiving but you still need to be careful not to bend them.

4. Verify return procedures/costs BEFORE you buy. Be willing to eat return shipping if you get the wrong parts even if you are not wrong. Apparently the customer isn’t always right when it comes to restoring car parts.

Hopefully someone can benefit from these parts listings:

From Right Stuff Detailing and many other retailers that sell their parts
5-piece front brake line kit for OEM Disc brakes. AKT-6903S (S is Stainless)

5-piece front brake line kit for OEM Drum converted to disc brakes. AKT-6905S (S is Stainless). these are also referred to as Standard brakes.



Brake Distribution block - NOT the hold off.
PV06 is for 67-29



PV07 is for 70-72 - I was sent this one first.

Things are moving along now that I have the proper parts.



Some things need a touch of manipulation... they don't line up perfectly but they are close enough to make small adjustments.





The clamp that goes here doesn't line up so it will need to be massaged into place.



I'll adjust the distribution block to allow bolting it to the frame after all the lines are attached...



Some things just end up perfectly...





Todays tip: Take pictures of hard to reach or hard to see spots like the misaligned bolt holes/clips above to help you figure out which direction to move the part or work around an obstruction.
 
#40 · (Edited)
Started bleeding brakes tonight... I can't seem to get the pedal to drop to the floor when doing the rear brakes. I get a small amount of air and no fluid.

Is it vapor lock of some sort?

The front brakes were "pre bled" because the self bleeders I bought don't work - even when seated all the way into the calipers. I know I needed to do the back brakes first but as it turned out the front were automatically done as i did the rear passenger side.

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Dan

PS. I should mention I have the rear brakes adjusted properly before I started.
 
#41 ·
I like to gravity bleed them. Take the MC top off, fill with brake fluid, open the passenger side rear bleeder and grab a beer and wait. It may take a while. If you still don't get any fluid back there then try to pump the pedal with the bleeder open, BUT, only pump the pedal up and down about an inch to an inch and a half till the fluid comes out. Once you get fluid there close that one and open the drivers side rear and gravity bleed that side. Then move to the passenger side front and bleed that one, then the drivers side. Once you have fluid on all 4 corners, pump the pedal a few times and then bleed all 4 corners again just to be sure all the air is out. GLHF.
 
#48 ·
Still no joy... tried the harbor freight vacuum pump (I had one) and I hooked up an electric vacuum pump when that didn't work...I left it run long enough I became concerned I might burn it out... Since that didn't work I opened the nut at the master cylinder and pushed the brake pedal, I got a spray of fluid. Then I opened the nut at the bottom side of the distribution block (which feeds the rear brakes) and fluid began dripping. Next I completely opened the connection at the soft line at the rear...(at the end of the long line from front to rear) NO fluid comes out even if I press the brake pedal. I can't believe the line is clogged but I'll have to remove it and test it.

What an adventure this has been. Dan

I had trouble bleeding a fresh system with new lines so I purchased a hand vaccum pump from Harbor Freight. It was around 20 bucks and pulls vaccum until you get fluid.. use it on my bikes too. If you don't have a bad component it WILL bleed the system. Good to have around too imo. Here's a link:

Brake Bleeder and Vacuum Pump Kit
 
#49 · (Edited)
You mentioned in an earlier post that you could not push the button on the hold-off valve. Why? Can you not get to it? If I recall correctly, I had to depress mine with a screwdriver, but once I did the brakes bled normally, front and back.
 
#51 ·
I can't press it at all, I even used a bar (flat buffer wrench) across the button so I could exert a bit more leverage but it's solid. I may try the screw driver option next.

I thought the Hold Off only affected the front brakes because its an in-line device.



Yes, I did. I loosened the lines at the master and it sprayed fluid from the connection. The front brakes are already bled, by default, when the speed bleeders would not seat in the caliper.

I loosened each connection from the master to the rear flex line pressing the brake pedal after loosening each connection (re-tightening after testing each connection). I stopped getting fluid release at the rear flex connection.

I plan to disconnect each of the rear lines and blow air through them to check for blockage.

Try to bleed it at the master, crack the lines loose and have someone depress the pedal, do you get fluid out of both lines?
 
#55 ·
I guess I'm not surprised... Machined in China? Might be a chunk of brass stuck inside. You'ld think some sort of testing would have been done before it left the manufacturer.

At least you found it.
 
#56 ·
I AM surprised but I'm also relieved because in only 15 minutes tonight I sucked out the master cylinder brake fluid, removed the old distribution block, installed the new distribution block, hooked up the vacuum pump I inherited from Dad and wall-a!!! I had brake fluid at the rear wheels!!! I cycled each rear wheel three times then pedal bled the front. Tomorrow I'll clean her up put the wheels back on and hopefully take her for a ride, weather permitting.

Thanks to all you guys who have offered up suggestions and help.

The lesson learned on this project, number four thousand seven hundred fifty two, was don't assume new parts are good. The last lesson was don't assume the parts you received are the right ones.

I will never pedal bleed the rear brakes again now that I remembered I have this... what a time saver!!



I hooked a vacuum hose to this and hooked that to the vacuum canister that came with my hand vacuum pump. The other end of the vacuum canister was hooked to the caliper or rear cylinder.

I kept my hand on the rubber hose and I could feel the air coming through the hose. When that feeling stopped I moved to the next wheel.
 
#57 · (Edited)
I love it when a plan comes together.

Today I was able to get her back on the road!! It was fun to drive it again.

The new sway bar and sway bar end links made a big difference as well as the rear shocks! The brakes worked perfect, after making some adjustments to the hardline/soften connection at the back.

I couldn't get it to stop leaking so I called Right Stuff Detailing - where I bought the lines, the guy there gave me the secret. Tighten it, "crank on it" he said then, loosen a touch, crank on it again etc etc... He said doing it three times should do the trick. He was right!!

While I had her in the air I added some spring rubbers, ala NASCAR, to improve the stance on the left front. The spring is so weak the rings were laying on each other. The spring rubbers worked to an extent. It will give me a chance to track down the springs for later when I do all the ball joints and front end bushings.

Next project is to replace the steering gear and both lines. It leaks like a sieve and the steering is very loose. The new gear weighs nearly 30 pounds. :)



PS. I determined the front seal is bad on the rear diff as well as the rear seal on the transmission so I'll need to replace those at some point and Imm do the U-joints at the same time... fun fun fun :)
 
#58 ·
Ahhhh, but just wait til you get her dialed in. Congrats on your find and on being able to enjoy it.

My wife has always been afraid of our classic cars (my Nova was stupid fast!) and has never wanted to drive them. I made her drive the Goat awhile back. when she got back, she had an ear to ear grin on her face and said, "This drives better than my car!" (a 2000 Benz). I said, "I know!"
 
#60 ·
I drive mine as much as i can get away with (in Michigan 4,000 miles in 3 years), with suspension and brakes up to snuff they drive like a caddy with a bad attitude. Often take it to estimates and contract signings on nice days. Had one customers think it was kinda pretentious of me to show up in a "BIG BUCKS" ride. Explained to him i built it from the ground up myself to DRIVE and take just as much pride in the construction work i would be doing for him....got the job!!!
 
#61 ·
Great story Instg8ter!

I will drive her as much as possible too... I owned her for less than one week and did over 400 miles before I brought her home from FL. :)

I might take her to PA to get a hood for my truck project - if it iits in the truck. :lol:
 
#65 · (Edited)
Might be worth hooking up a vacuum gauge and seeing how much you lose when you put it into gear. Also, mine idles at 500 rpms in gear and runs smooth down there. I kicked the idle up to 700 and my vacuum signal improved.

Put a tach and a vacuum gauge on it and do some tinkering.
 
#66 ·
Will do, thanks. I need to dig into Dad's box of old gauges and such, going back in time will be fun.

I suspect I need to increase the idle, she "lopes" at stop lights. It seems counter intuitive but I know it's not.

Thanks for the help guys. Dan

Might be worth hooking up a vacuum gauge and seeing how much you lose when you put it into gear. Also, mine idles at 500 rpms in gear and runs smooth down there. I had too kick the idle up to 700 and my vacuum signal improved.

Put a tach and a vacuum gauge on it and do some tinkering.
 
#67 ·
Increasing the RPMs worked!

My brake pedal is better but I'll probably take it up a notch more. I don't have an vacuum gauge after-all so I made the adjustment based on RPMs. I didn't use my RPM gauge either because the plug wires seem to be very brittle and I didn't want to pull on them because I know they will break - if they did it would have meant another project which I'm not ready for. The plugs are rusted in place too so I will do the full monte with wires and plugs later. I'm planning to soak the plugs overnight or for a couple days to ensure they come out without breaking or stripping anything. I'll get all my materials and gauges in hand before I start this project.

Now... I have a front brake chatter - after the brakes get hot. I didn't replace the front brake pads because they are new (from PO) so I'll remove the calipers, service them, scuff the pads and rotors and see if that fixes it. If not I'll replace the pads and have the rotors (they are new as well) turned/resurfaced.

I ordered front springs and some other parts yesterday... this is fun!!

more to come...
 
#68 ·
Whenever I install new pads, I use a coating on the backs of them to eliminate squeal, but I also saturate the pad surface with a product. I can't remember the name and I don't have it in front of me right now, as I'm at work, but it is specifically made for brake pads when you're installing them.

If I remember later, I'll run out to the garage and get the info.

Chuck
 
#71 ·
Well it appears I have successfully fixed the front brake chatter. I removed the pads, calipers and pins... The pads apepared to be glazed and had some "goo" on the outside edges.



The pins were a mess so I cleaned them up... never under estimate the power of a good wire wheel!



I scuffed the pads, you can see the scuffed pad on the left above. I also scuffed the rotors on both sides and sprayed everything down with brake cleaner.



I reassembled with some caliper lube in all the right places and took her for a ride...



Rain was threatening so I didn't take it on a long test drive so I won't know for sure untilI take it on a longer ride. So far so good!
 
#73 ·
No sweat. I washed them with brake cleaner and scuffed them good. Appears to have worked. I need to take her out tonight for an extended ride because it might be one of the last times I can. They are predicting snow mid week!!! YUK!!!

Hey Chuckha62, when you get a chance please look for that coating information any way, for future reference. Thanks Dan
 
#75 ·
Unfortunately no. After an extended run tonight, 1.5 hours it started to chatter again on both sides. I may need more aggressive abrasion on the rotors. Since I'm going to park her for winter soon I'll do that when I take apart the front suspension to replace/upgrade the ball joints, bushings and springs.

I hate doing things twice but I'll know how to do it really well. :)

Thanks for the information chuckha62. Dan
 
#76 ·
Damn. Try putting a significant bevel on the leading edge (the rear, actually) of each pad and see if that helps. You won't effect your braking effectiveness, but it should take care of the chatter.
 
#77 ·
Dan, recommend turning the rotors - or replacing if you have already achieved minimum thickness. You should do this every time you install new pads. Also, is the guide pin in the picture bent? I agree with Chuckha about replacing hardware. A little grease on the guide pins where they make contact would be good as well. And what type of pads did you get - organic, semi metallic, ceramic? I've had very good luck with ceramic, but they do wear rotors a little quicker. Matt
 
#78 ·
You are correct Matthew, that pin is bent - I usually replace those and any slides glides or clips but I didn't have them on me at the time - never thinking those would be bent. :confused I will be going to Summit Racing on the way home tonight or tomorrow. Knowing about the condition these brakes were in when I test drove the car makes me shutter at what could have happened had I let her loose then or at home after receiving her. :eek: One thing is for sure, she will never be in that bad of shape again!

It looks to me like these pads are full on Organic, I was thinking last night they might be the wrong pads or they are full Organic - which I've NEVER had any luck with. I will get either semi-metalic or ceramic and new pins.

The ONLY reason I reused the pads was because they were "new" from the PO - rotors are new as well with almost no wear indicated but they are "blued" which makes me think the pads are not the right ones for this application (organic or not). Rotors heat up, pads get sticky, pads shutter... At least I know the calipers are working correctly.

Bottom line - I should have just stripped the entire car of anything brake related and replaced it... Another automotive maintenance lesson.
 
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