My 69 - Pontiac GTO Forum
User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-06-2010, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
BearGFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Springtown, TX
Posts: 5,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Garage
My 69

Howdy all,

Thought I'd post a little of my 69 project. This car was the last car my dad and I bought together a few years before he died, so it's special to me. It was my daily driver as I was finishing up college - in 1974. I started a frame off on it in the early 80's, then "life got in the way" and it had to sit awhile. The project got going again, finally, in June of 2008 and I've been working on it fairly steady since then. Things got really serious about March of this year when I got a nice bonus from work and my sweet, loving bride said, "Honey? why don't you take all that and finish the GTO." I didn't make her say that a second time.

As of right now, the body work is done, wet sanded, and ready for paint. The engine, drive train, cooling system, fuel system, suspension, and brakes are done. I decided to warm up the numbers-matching YS 400 a 'tiny bit'. It's now stroked to 461 with very good internals, genuine #722 iron heads, solid roller cam, headers, and a real 455SD Qjet (service replacement) that I had the good fortune to have bought many years ago from HO. Here's a link to the dyno sheet.
Here's a couple of links to videos of it running, in the car, for the first time in more than 20 years - both with
and also with

I used the Engine Analyzer program from Performance Trends to plan and model the motor. The actual runs on the dyno turned out to be very close to what was predicted so I feel the software must be pretty good. If their companion Drag Race Analyzer is equally as good, then the car ought to be in the high 11's on good drag radials, 11.30's or so (roll bar territory) on slicks. We'll find out eventually...

Man, I've sure learned a lot in the past couple of years working on this thing. Things like:
1) The phrase "bolt-on" is always a lie. So is "complete kit".
2) Once you modify "one thing" you will then have to modify "everything".
3) There's a very good reason that quality body work is both difficult to find and hideously expensive when you do.
4) Learn to expect set-backs, challenges, and problems that you will slow you down until you solve them, usually on your own.
5) There's a reason that it's called "car building" and not "car assembling".
6) Anything you do in a big hurry is usually wrong.
7) It doesn't matter if you lay down a weld that is 99.99% perfect. That remaining 0.01% will still leak.
8) Your car will always be the one that needs the part that was only used for a short time during production, that you can't get any more, causing you to have to modify other things in order to use the part that you CAN get, at which time #2 above will rear its ugly head.
9) Remember, we do this because it's fun...

If you'd like to see a TON of photos I've been taking since June of 2008, go here. (I try to keep these reasonably up to date as I work on things.)

Thanks for reading,

Bear
BearGFR is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-06-2010, 05:48 PM
Former Moderator
 
ALKYGTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wentzville, Mo.
Posts: 2,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Garage
Nice project Bear. I thought mine took a long time at 6 years, I admire your dedication and perserverance.

Through the muff's sounds like pure WIN over the opens. Sounds incredibly good, I'd save my money on a killer stereo if I were you.

What color is she going to be, original or not?
ALKYGTO is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-06-2010, 09:47 PM
 
jetstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Niceville, FL
Posts: 3,376
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Garage
Sweet project, congrats for getting back at it.
What is the perk of building a small journal 400 over a large journal 455. My neighbor has a 455 and wants to build a stroker small journal 400.

Burning rubber since 1982!!
My photobucket, lots of dif car pics.
http://s411.photobucket.com/home/jetstang
jetstang is offline  
 
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-07-2010, 02:50 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Novato, Cali
Posts: 336
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dimitri is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-08-2010, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
BearGFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Springtown, TX
Posts: 5,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Garage
Thanks for the kind words...
@AlkyGTO, I'm going to paint it black. I've gotten the body in good enough shape for black to look good and it's been my favorite color on cars forever. The original color was Palladium Silver and I thought about that for awhile since it matches the data plate, but since the vinyl top (also on the data plate) is history there's no reason to keep the color original. (Plus, my bride said 'ewww' when I mentioned silver so it didn't take much to talk me out of it.) I'm building this car for me (and eventually my son) to enjoy so I don't really care about preserving 100% originality. Though I am saving all the original pieces and I haven't cut up the car in case he ever decides he wants to go back to that

@jetstang: 400 blocks are actually stronger than 455's for exactly that reason - there's more meat in the main webs. Also with the "smaller" (if you can call 3" small) main journals the speed at the bearing surface is less at a given rpm which translates into less friction, less heat, and less stress trying to defeat the oil film. Pontiac cranks, being significantly shorter end to end than (cough) BBC's are already very strong, even in cast versions. If you manage to break a stock crank then you probably had a bad detonation problem, an bad oiling problem, or you spun it -way- too high (but even then the rods will probably let go first). Pontiac's are torque motors and they make it down low - they aren't "Chevys" and it's a mistake to think of them that way. Where most SBC guys are always worried about low end torque, using super low gears and/or loose converters to try to get them to move - so much so that they're very unpleasant to impossible to drive on the street. Pontiac guys don't have that problem. We struggle to get them hooked. My engine, for example, with only a moderate solid roller cam (236/242 degrees duration at .050) makes over 540 ft. lbs. at 3100 RPM - and it's still over 500 ft. lbs. going through 5100. This is on 93 octane at 9.46:1 compression with iron heads and iron factory intake. With 3.50:1 rear gears and a 3200 stall converter it's going to be very streetable - and still capable of high 11's with drag radials, maybe low to mid 11's on slicks. SBC guys can only look at that wistfully and dream

Bear
BearGFR is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-15-2010, 10:19 PM
 
58mark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mesquite Tx
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Love the website and the story behind it! Great car, can't wait to see it progress... keep bumping this thread when you add more pics to the site
58mark is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-16-2010, 10:11 AM
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 4,702
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Garage
Bear, Great sounding engine and a nice neat build!!! BLACK is definately the way to go since you have her straight enough. I can't wait to get further into my build....waiting on parts........ Eric



Eric Animal is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-16-2010, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
BearGFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Springtown, TX
Posts: 5,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Animal View Post
Bear, Great sounding engine and a nice neat build!!! BLACK is definately the way to go since you have her straight enough. I can't wait to get further into my build....waiting on parts........ Eric
Thanks Eric - I can relate to the "waiting on parts" state. I've been working on my brake system for months. Wilwood surprised me a few times with things that weren't included in their "kit" that I wound up having to order and wait on. Next, after thinking about it for a good long time I decided to convert the power brake system to hydroboost since at 13" my cam is marginal for vacuum assist. Rather than spend $900+ for a hyrdoboost kit I decided to engineer my own using various parts intended for other vehicles. It's almost done now and I might publish how I did it in case others want to do the same (it's about half the cost of a kit). Due to tight header clearance I've had to modify the mount for the brake distribution block / pressure warning switch two times. The first time I just tried to get it tighter to the frame, but that still only left about 1/8" between it and the header tube and also made it so that to connect/disconnect the lines required loosening the drivers side header to get some wiggle room. Round two involved moving it from the inside of the frame rail to the top of the frame rail, but that required modifiying the bracket and running some new brake lines. I'd already gone with new stainless lines and the flaring tool I had couldn't deal with them very well, and of course several attempts left one of them "too short" necessitatiing ordering another length of that special double-annealed stainless line from InLine Tube along with a better flaring tool.....

I just got everything finally plumbed and buttoned up, including an adjustable proportioning valve tucked inside the frame rail, this morning about 3 am.....

I still need to fab a mount for the propr valve, secure everything to the frame, bench-bleed and install the master cylinder, and fill/bleed the brake system.

It never ends...


Bear

BearGFR
Springtown, TEXAS
BearGFR is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-16-2010, 07:42 PM
64-67 Expert
 
geeteeohguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fresno, California
Posts: 8,543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Bear, thanks for posting. You've been a member for quite some time, but only recently seem to have "re-appeared". I see you on the other forums, as well. Your posts are always extremely informative, unbiased, and helpful. You have a talent for explaining highly technical information in a clear and easlily understood manner (and I'm an automotive technician!!). Best of all, you know how to post pictures and videos, unlike some of us.... Keep up the excellent work, thanks for the informative posts, and I can't wait to see it "on the road"!!!!!
Jeff
geeteeohguy is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 12-16-2010, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
BearGFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Springtown, TX
Posts: 5,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeteeohguy View Post
Bear, thanks for posting. You've been a member for quite some time, but only recently seem to have "re-appeared". I see you on the other forums, as well. Your posts are always extremely informative, unbiased, and helpful. You have a talent for explaining highly technical information in a clear and easlily understood manner (and I'm an automotive technician!!). Best of all, you know how to post pictures and videos, unlike some of us.... Keep up the excellent work, thanks for the informative posts, and I can't wait to see it "on the road"!!!!!
Jeff
Thanks for the kind words, Jeff. I can be pretty hard-headed so things have got to be simple for me to understand them I've been a professional geek all my adult life and I seem to have this affliction of "requiring" things to make sense to me. My wife believes that I can "fix anything", but what she doesn't realize is that the truth is that I'm too dumb to know not to tear into something and too stubborn to give up once I do..

Your profile says "Fresno" -- you wouldn't by chance happen to know Allen and Donna Wightman, would you? For awhile there in the late 90's I think they ran a chrome shop, but I don't think they're part of it any more. We shared a common connection with a band we're both fans of, but have lost track of each other.


Bear

BearGFR
Springtown, TEXAS
BearGFR is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Pontiac GTO Forum > The 1964-1974 Pontiac Tempest, Lemans & GTO > 1964-1974 Tempest, LeMans & GTO Projects, Barn Finds & Restoration Discussions

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Pontiac GTO Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome