Question about 1969 Judge Resto.. - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
 
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Question about 1969 Judge Resto..

Hello everyone,
I have been a along time reader here and finally have a question that I have not been able to find the answer on. I'm hoping someone could shed some light on the 1969 Judge I just found. I bought it from an older gentleman in Ohio, it has been in the back of his barn forever and I would like to begin a mild restoration process on it. It is numbers matching from carb to oil pan but, the transmission has been changed out. According to the PHS docs it was born with a 3 speed manual but it now has a 4 speed in it. My question is, should i replace the trans with a 3 speed or stick with the 4. I dont plan on driving her long distances or anything. Also, I havent been able to find any info on other 3 speed Judges with bench seats. Can anyone on here guess a figure of how many of these were made?
It is a stripped down model. It was built and sold in Feb 69 in Texas. It has a bench seat and vinyl top. No power steering or brakes! Bare bone muscle!
Anyhow, thanks in advance for the help.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 03:54 PM
 
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Welcome to th forum! 380 '69 GTO judges built with RAIII & Dearborn 3spd. That number is split between hardtops and converts, but it is very doubtful that more than a handful of 3 spd '69 Judge converts were built.

Back in the early 80's, the first '69 Judge I ever ck'ed out was a carousel red (72/72) black bench seat 3spd car with next to no options. Was an Arizona car, and had just been brought east to Norman OK. The seller was working the dents out of the front valance with a hammer and dolly when I went to look at it. I was interested, and I was a very affordable car, but was set on the styling of a '70, so I passed and kept looking. Personally, I wouldn't worry about the Dearborn 3spd being swapped out for a Muncie, hat was a very common swap. If you desire, you can always track down a Dearborn 3spd and the correct Hurst shifter.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 06:10 PM
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+1 keep the 4 speed and if you want just put the 3 speed knob.........
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 08:38 PM
 
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The HD Ford Dearborn 3-speed is a nice fully synchronized trans. My '68 Lemans came with one and I have had 2 other cars with them. I am with Alky on this one, keep the 4-speed. You might want to look around for a 3-speed just to have it and could be included IF you ever sell the car, but my guess is that if another person bought the car, they would keep the 4-speed as well.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-16-2015, 02:14 PM
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How about some photos????

I'll answer your question with another question: what do you plan to do with the car? if you're going to keep it and enjoy it, then it doesn't matter - do what you like and have fun. If you're looking at investment/resale value, generally 100% original will always be better. However, in this particular case, like the good folks before me said, it's easy to do both. Run the 4speed if you like it better, but then when it's sale time changing it out for the 3speed is easy-peasy.

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-16-2015, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the input. I would like to keep it as original as I can and since it already has the 4 speed in it, I'll keep it in there. Here are some pics of me and the family pulling it out of last owners barn. It was sitting for over 10 years and I haven't started the engine yet. I plan on getting it rebuilt before I turn the key. It would kill me to blow the WS!
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-16-2015, 08:53 PM
 
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Looks really good! How is the interior? As nice as the exterior?
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-17-2015, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
 
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The interior is all there but really dirty from sitting. The bench seat will need new covers and the carpet could be replaced along with the interior door panels, but in all the interior is pretty good. Not show quality but surely driver quality!
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-17-2015, 10:16 AM
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Weird how they optioned it for sure. My GTO is bench 4 speed but not a judge (see my thread- https://www.gtoforum.com/f12/gtos-bench-seats-28560/ ). I noticed on your car they opted for a cordova top and a remote mirror but didn't pony up for the 4 spd. Interesting in these days of "packaged" cars how individuals or dealers would order cars.

Without a doubt if optioned with bench 3spd this is one rare Judge.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-17-2015, 06:37 PM
 
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Keep in mind that the 3-speed was a standard item while the 4-speed was a higher cost option. This may be one of the early run of 2,000 Judges in Carousel Red. From the book Pontiac GTO by Steve Statham, "The Judge earned its low cost merit badge by deleting trim rings on the wheels, installation of bench seat instead of buckets, and making some of the GTO standard instrumentation optional."

The apparent object was to offer the Judge as a package that was still affordable and this one fits that theme - 3 speed & bench seat.
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