Muncie required 1964 GTO - Pontiac GTO Forum
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-08-2018, 03:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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Muncie required 1964 GTO

Hello,

Does anyone have a muncie for sale? Preferably an m20 for my 64 if not , any would do!

A rock crusher would be nice as well.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-08-2018, 12:14 PM
 
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Several questions come to mind

whats your rear gear ?

are you using a 64 bellhousing ?

are you using a 64 shifter ..??

are you starting from scratch ?

I have a couple Muncie wide ratios ... from real nice used to rebuilt .... w/and w out shifters
NO 64 shifters but I know where one is .... locally ...

I also have a real M22 for a 390 gear car thats super original and sweet

but more info is required for proper application .........

Scott

2o6 465 9165
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-10-2018, 07:23 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by BLK69JUDGE View Post
Several questions come to mind

whats your rear gear ?

are you using a 64 bellhousing ?

are you using a 64 shifter ..??

are you starting from scratch ?

I have a couple Muncie wide ratios ... from real nice used to rebuilt .... w/and w out shifters
NO 64 shifters but I know where one is .... locally ...

I also have a real M22 for a 390 gear car thats super original and sweet

but more info is required for proper application .........

Scott

2o6 465 9165
Hello scott im actually starting from scratch like you said i dont know what rear end i have i still haven’t opened to check but its a ten bolt im just not sure whats in side.

About the M22, is it an original rock crusher? Thats great !

Sorry about the late reply I actually never got a notification!
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-10-2018, 01:11 PM
 
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yes its a real M-22 1970 mast of the small out put course input muncies
as in 71 they went to the fine spline input and th400 size yoke ..

I have several nice muncie M-20 from a nice original to a rebuilt one

I dont have any early 325 cased muncies,,,, 660 and 010 cases...

you dont want a rock crusher ....

a wide ratio and a 323 rear gear is the best all around... maybe 336 rear gear ..

if you wanna chat muncie and the items you will need
feel free to call 2zero6 465 9165

Scott
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 06:08 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by BLK69JUDGE View Post
yes its a real M-22 1970 mast of the small out put course input muncies
as in 71 they went to the fine spline input and th400 size yoke ..

I have several nice muncie M-20 from a nice original to a rebuilt one

I dont have any early 325 cased muncies,,,, 660 and 010 cases...

you dont want a rock crusher ....

a wide ratio and a 323 rear gear is the best all around... maybe 336 rear gear ..

if you wanna chat muncie and the items you will need
feel free to call 2zero6 465 9165

Scott
Hello scott,

Okay that sounds great ill try to give you a call soon!

As i will probably race it id want a 3.55 rear maybe with a wide ratio m22

but yes ill call you and well see!
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 10:11 AM
 
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wide ratio m-22 are aftermarket

I have never heard of a wide ratio M-22 original

M-22 are close ratio and have a 2.20 first gear and need a 390 or better gear
unless your running a small 14" tire that may help with M-22 and 355 's

youlle often get clutch chatter starting out on a hill with out having a close ratio
and 355 or higher rear gear

racing ?????

sorry I am out ... muncies dont like that very well .. buy new for 2500 plus

wheel hop kills muncies

Scott
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-14-2018, 03:49 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by BLK69JUDGE View Post
wide ratio m-22 are aftermarket

I have never heard of a wide ratio M-22 original

M-22 are close ratio and have a 2.20 first gear and need a 390 or better gear
unless your running a small 14" tire that may help with M-22 and 355 's

youlle often get clutch chatter starting out on a hill with out having a close ratio
and 355 or higher rear gear

racing ?????

sorry I am out ... muncies dont like that very well .. buy new for 2500 plus

wheel hop kills muncies

Scott
Im just exploring my options,

There are no original m22’s like you said, i was talking about these modified ones.

Im willing to change the rear gears actually and a close ratio might work.

What do you think a suitable setup is for a street strip would be if id do both.

Because i told you i dont know the ratio yet and im willing to change!
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-14-2018, 10:09 AM
 
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Garage
The important factor here is how much horsepower/torque are you expecting to make and at what RPM?

Any Muncie will work - wide ratio or close ratio. The wide ratio will allow for a rear gear like 3.23 or 3.36 and not have to slip the clutch a lot on take off. Using a close ratio trans can make these gears tough when taking off in first gear and especially on an incline at a stop light. Could you still use them? Sure if you don't mind slipping the clutch more and shortening its life considerably.

So with a close ratio Muncie, M-21 or M-22, you would want at least a 3.55 rear gear.

It then becomes a matter of cost, from the lower end for the wide ratio M-20 to the higher side for the close ratio M-21, to the pricey close ratio M-22 "Rock Crusher" - of which was a low production number and highly desireable for those who want original.

The M-20/M-21 Muncie will handle a good amount of abuse, but it is not designed to handle high HP/TQ if you build an engine bigger than stock numbers. That's why the M-22. It will handle more HP/TQ, but again, up to a point.

The aftermarket M-22 design that is advertised on the internet is designed to handle big HP/TQ as it was redesigned in those areas found to be "weak." However, it is not inexpensive.

Along with adding more HP/TQ, you have to address the rest of the driveline. The stock 10-bolt rear won't handle the combination abuse of high HP/TQ, wide tires, and drag race starts. So a rear axle upgrade is needed - however you choose to go.

With the rear axle upgrade, you will need to do suspension upgrades. The stock suspension leaves a little to be desired. As mentioned - wheel hop. Wheel hop can be very violent and break rear ends & transmissions. So this has to be addressed so the wheel hop is eliminated and traction is added. Again, several ways of dong this.

With all that said, it is difficult for anyone here to throw out a simple answer to you without having all the information needed. I would first build the engine, either on paper or actually build it and run it on a dyno. Once you know the engine's HP/TQ and RPM range, then you can select a transmission type and gear ratio to work with the engine. Otherwise, you are asking people to guess/assume on what you want and that never works in real life.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-10-2018, 12:47 AM
 
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This is very useful information, there is always opportunities to learn, sometimes you just forget, and post like this is a reminder as well... we talk how much hp and tq can a rearend and muncie take, when you have violent wheel hop.. I have a matching numbers vette, many years ago I pulled the original motor and stored it in my basement, for a built stroker, now I know that engine had 472hp and 515tq..(at flywheel) I drove it hard.. back in 2006 I had another stroker built, full roller.. I have not had it dynoed, this motor had significant changes done.. my trailing arm bushing are shot, last summer on many occasions, and I do mean many. I had some severe wheel hop.. the numbers I given you are real, on my previous motor.. thankfully, I had no trans or rearend failure.. prior to reading this post, I already had a spring to do list, along with tires and shocks... perhaps I am very lucky,.. I think I am...
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