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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-20-2017 11:17 PM
Goat Roper My GTO was way overpriced but here is why I paid it.
1. The car was a parts matching car with 2 owners.
2. Car was complete and still had the smog pump.
3. Here is the big one cosmetically the bodywork, paint and livery were all done and if you have ever had a bad experience with a custom shop this is HUGE and can cost thousands before you can get it back and then you need to find another shop.
My car was disassembled for paint and body, a lot more work than mask and paint in resale red.
Anything that leaves your direct control can turn into a real screwing like my engine rebuild by CVMS.


I was able to talk the seller down almost 10K because all the running gear was original but needed to be rebuilt from bumper to bumper.
Upside was it was all original so it was all there.
Downside was it was all worn out.
The thing to consider is time because you are going to pay the same amount in the end you either spend it on a nicer car up front or you spend it in the end on the restore.
I am mechanically inclined so I was able to do the mechanical, the bodywork and interior are something I would have had to farm out and after getting screwed once on another restore by a crappy body shop I won't ever go down that road again.
I ended up doing the bodywork and paint myself in the driveway just to get it done.
I have friends in the business so I took 2 ASE certified mechanics with me and a retired body man to check the body work.
The more experienced eyes you can get to look at a potential purchase the better and it is money well spent.
I spent over a year looking at the same pieced together poorly painted rust buckets before I found this car, it spent the first 41 years garaged in So Cal then it was purchased by a pharmacist who had the body and interior done then I spent a year + rebuilding it mechanically.
I wanted my car as close to factory original as I could make it so of course I had to spend more but you only live once and life is too short to drive crappy cars.
03-20-2017 08:57 PM
Trey Lester What do you guys think of this one? I little bit of a drive, but totally doable. https://fayar.craigslist.org/cto/6048545243.html

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03-20-2017 12:14 PM
Pinion head Good luck in your search!
03-20-2017 11:07 AM
Trey Lester Yes the weather in these parts are not perfect for finding good project cars. It doesn't help that most the "old Farmer" types get ahold of cars like these and store them out in a pasture. I'm good with replacing fender wells and trunk panel. But I admit that replacing the rear window scares the hell out me.

I'm over in Stillwater. Grew up more Western OK. Close to Enid. Don't know a Travis Lester. There are a few different families with that last name scattered around.
03-20-2017 10:02 AM
Pinion head Can't help here....
03-20-2017 09:33 AM
Trey Lester Thanks everyone. The advice on what to look for helps a ton. Looks like finding the right car will be tough. I may be at a little bit of a disadvantage since I want a specific car and body style.

PH also mentioned " There are also the Pontiacs from the same muscle era time range, that can really be screwed up "building 'em the way you want 'em"" And that brings up a good point because I really don't want to be the guy that destroys an amazing classic car. While I don't think that is how he intended that comment to come out; It does make me think harder about my car choice. It may be better if I can find something that is pretty messed up already. maybe a salvage car would be the best thing for my goals. The hard part is going to be finding one that is not rusted out.

I'll keep looking for the right car. In the mean time, if anyone sees something that might fit my needs please send me a DM! i'm in Oklahoma, but would probably be willing to travel to look at the car if it's owned by someone that is active on these forums.
03-19-2017 09:47 PM
PontiacJim X2 with PH, and agree it is way overpriced.

That is not a 25K car, probably 125K. The older cars do not have the extra odometer digit like newer model cars to tell you that it has already clocked over 100,000 miles. I see many ads that claim this of their car when the mileage is much higher. It is also very easy to buy another speedo off Ebay with lesser miles, have a shop clock the numbers for you, or even hook up an electric drill to the end of the speedo cable at the trans and spin it in reverse to back down the miles - don't think this isn't done.

Look at all the gauges put into the dash. Gas gauge inserted in the left dash pod, 3 gauges where the radio goes, aftermarket tach in the right pod, no headlight push-pull switch on the lower left (open hole), small light (?) above the left turn signal, and.........what appears to be an incorrect 140 MPH speedometer. Looks like the remains of a Grant steering wheel and it may not have originally had the 4-speed as most had the center console and the is definitely and aftermarket shifter boot and shift knob.

A fair price, after I received my PHS documents to verify how much of the car is still original and how much of it has been changed, might be 6-8K and hope for the best, but I would be all over it looking for rust & repair work and expect to pump money into it. My guess is that the engine is not original either and may or may not be a 400CI as all Pontiac engines have the same physical size. Could be a 350CI if you did not verify that it was not.

Keep in mind, there are many "middle men" who promote the sales of other people's cars found on the internet, Craig's List, AutoTrader, Hemmings, and all the other magazines that sell cars. They list a car as if it is theirs and part of their inventory when in fact they don't own it. They can very easily be scammers who answer your questions and send you more photos because they are getting the info from the original source from where it is being sold from. You put a deposit on it and guess what? I purchased a '73 Plymouth Fury Grand Coup last November - I OWN THIS CAR. It is posted by one of these rip off "dealers" in Cadillac, MI for $5,895. https://classics.autotrader.com/clas...ge=2&year=1964 I paid $3,500 for it and you would think it was on his lot when he lives no where near North Carolina. Most of this idiots cars are from other ads hoping to turn a profit by hooking you up with the original seller in a "no refund/buyer beware" you own it deal. MY ADVICE??? If you cannot see the car in person and talk to its rightful owner in person, pass on the deal.
03-19-2017 08:31 PM
1968gto421 For inspiration, you may want to check out this link:

Pro Touring Pontiacs check in - PY Online Forums

Pinion head is one of the most knowledgeable members on this (and other) forum. He has access to obscure Pontiac info that he has acquired over decades as well as a multitude of parts. Jim is another who has his knowledge based on years of experience with Pontiacs (and other makes). Good advice here.
03-19-2017 06:52 PM
Pinion head
Originally Posted by Trey Lester View Post
Okay, Last one of these i'm posting then I'm going to stop looking for cars today.


It's more expensive, but a lot smaller project for me to start with. I can keep the current 400 in it, but do some updates later. May be a better way to get started in the long run.
Unless under all the mess, that '68's a real RAII GTO hardtop, the car in those pics is waaaay overpriced. Beware of quickee "body on" repaints ESP ones with pics out of filthy home garages. Where are the pics of the original metal under all the primer & quicker shot paint? There should be multiple dozens of pictures of what the body looked like. In my region, many absolute garbage field cars, cars that those of us that have dragged in multiple hundreds of parts & project cars have purposed passed up, many of those terds have been dragged in by turn & burn artists pressure washed at the car wash, taped off, the window trim not even removed, & shot with single stage. Then these same terds have been put on eBay or in the traders as solid "survivor" project cars.

Newsflash, anything that hasn't been crushed, ground up, & melted down & made into rebar, is a survivor! Don't buy into the hucksters or those that use such terms & feed such BS! Take your time, research what you're looking at, figure out the bodystyle's trouble spots, & what will cost a small fortune to replace.

There are some 45-55 year old Pontiac A body's that one can "streetrod build" 'em, not get carried away, & not end up with 3-4 times in them with what they're worth. Waaay more than what any halfway reasonable person would pay for them when priorities change. Priorities do change, have bought quite a few project cars over the years from just such occurences. There are also the Pontiacs from the same muscle era time range, that can really be screwed up "building 'em the way you want 'em". Some such cars, any mods need to be easily reversible. The one thing that buoys muscle era Pontiac prestige & pricing over nearly all other GM makes from the same era, is one can order up a copy of the original invoice for nearly every '62-81 model Pontiac. Early on years, there are a few tiny gaps in the micro fish copies of the invoice histories, but if the car was anything halfway special, it can typically be documented through PHS or George Z with GM of Canada. Not so in the states with Olds, most Chevys, & only a narrow range of GS's can one get a copy of the factory invoice. Hope this helps.
03-19-2017 05:45 PM
Trey Lester Okay, Last one of these i'm posting then I'm going to stop looking for cars today.


It's more expensive, but a lot smaller project for me to start with. I can keep the current 400 in it, but do some updates later. May be a better way to get started in the long run.
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