To those who have test driven, or own the 05 6 spd... How really objectionable is the shifter, as ive read about. .is it enough to turn a potential sale into a no-sale? Im liking the car, what ive seen of it, but i have to find one to test drive.. and want to hear more about the shifter.. thanks.
05 Tremec 6 spd
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I guess it depends on what you are used to. I went from a Mustang with a very precise aftermarket short throw shifter to the GTO and it was a huge change. By comparision the stock GTO shifter feels very soft and and requires more guidance to get it into the gear you want. I have only had my GTO for 4 days now and I am starting to get used to it though. I definitely do not think the shifter would cause you to not want to buy a GTO as the rest of the car is awesome! Besides, you can always replace the shifter later if you find that you just can't live with it 
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.Thanks for the respons. So long as there is an inexpensive fix for it, I have no problem.. Listen. Ieven thought my M3 shifter was sloppy, and most people do, so they install a short shift kit.. IF thats all we ahve to do to teh goat, big Deal.. Maybe its not all that bad anyway.. Ill have to find a dealer with a 6 spd and see.AggieGTO said:I guess it depends on what you are used to. I went from a Mustang with a very precise aftermarket short throw shifter to the GTO and it was a huge change. By comparision the stock GTO shifter feels very soft and and requires more guidance to get it into the gear you want. I have only had my GTO for 4 days now and I am starting to get used to it though. I definitely do not think the shifter would cause you to not want to buy a GTO as the rest of the car is awesome! Besides, you can always replace the shifter later if you find that you just can't live with it
But new fluid wouldnt do anything to diminish the long sloppy throws Ive read about... Are they really that bad? You gotta ask yourself, if all it takes is a short shift kit, like so many guys like to throw into their cars no matter What make it is, then why the hell doesnt GM just spend the few bucks it would cost and equip it properly to begin with. Its simply crazy to have this gorgeous engine, and good tranny, which has to be manipulated by a long throw, rubbery shifter. Nuts. Having the pedals badly spaced is one thing.. I mean, that costs more money to fix. But shortening the linkage is a no brainer which is usually guys' number 1 or number 2 aftermarket upgrade they make anyway. Hmmm.. maybe thats what gm figured: why charge more at the beginning for something which customers are accustomed to putting in themselves later anyway! Well, one reason would be so that the press stops saying how bad the shifter is compared to Mustangs!!!Xman said:
Thank you Kid. Thats good to hear. Theres a Buick/Pontiac showroom a half mile from me.. I think maybe Ill take a ride (or a walk) over there today.. I read from online inventory, they had 2 in stock, but both with the stock automatic tranny, of course. So I wont be able to tell much about the stick, but at least Ill be able to sit in it, and get a feel for the interior, and maybe theyll even let me listen to the engine!
I gotta tell you, for some reason, the thought of owning this car has taken up residence in my brain. Its captured something in me, and Im no kid. Im old enough to remember the original goat! Only thing is, can you imagine what all my M3 friends are going to say?! Over the 6 yrs since Ive owned my '99 M3, Ive made alot of close friends all of whom are bmw drivers. Since Ive heavily modded mine, that drew us even closer, as we shared time helping each other out with our superchargers and turbos, and intercoolers, etc, etc.
Whats weird is that as recently as a yr ago, I would no more have considered a domestic car than I would have considered rooting for the redsox (im from NY ). Whats turned me around? I think one thing is that I started to realize car makers today are world wide partnerships: ford-volvo-saab-etc; chrysler-mercedes; etc, etc. The result is that even Consumers Reports who never found a domestic car they didnt love to hate has turned the corner on american cars. Finally, they seem to be supporting domestic cars as the peer of most other makes. Well, nobody has the reliability toyota and honda. But that aside, after owning my M3 since new in '99, Id be very surprised if a Gto, or a mustang, for example, wouldnt be at Least as reliable, and probably a good deal more so. Can you imagine what the press would say if any american car had as many maladies as my BMW did: tranny lost 5th gear and needed replacement at 43k miles; Unibody around the rear shock towers cracked needing a weld in replacement fix at 47k miles; the radiators and their plastic bits routinely crack off the throat leaving you stranded; and just last month, at just 65k miles, the head had to come off for a complete rebuild due to worn valves. Thats one lousy track record.. Ok, true, I added a Vortech sc system at just 5k miles on the car, and this is known to increase the wear clock.. But NOT by this much!
No doubt, these problems are one of the reasons Im looking at the gto, and yes, the mustang too. Im going to think long and hard before doing any major upgrades to my next car which change the basic architecture of the car, like super or turbocharging the engine. Thats one of the reasons IM looking at V8s only. And the 400 hp gto is probably as fast as my Supercharged M3; maybe even faster.. Anybody know what they put down on the dyno? My M3 pulled 353 rwhp, and 290 wheel trq, and that was on a 96 degree day according to the dynojet reported temperature reading in Fla, which is equivalent to about 430 engine hp, and 355 engine ft lbs.. And at just 3200 lbs, its easy to see how well this car moves. Its also got Fikse FM10s all around, and a lowered Koni suspension assembled by Dinan engineering for BMW. Clearly this is a one of a kind custom delight. Yea, I know, I gotta be nuts to get rid of it. Maybe Im just mad at it; its been in the shop for a month now, getting the head rebuilt, new radiator put in, and the biggest delay is getting the blower back from Vortech, where we sent it for their minor Rebuild, since the car was going to be down anyway to fix the valves. Well, its suppposed to be delivered to the shop today, so they can button it back up, test it, and tell me to come pick it up, hopefully. But, with each major repair, i get a little more gunshy; a little more cautious about hammering the throttle, etc. You know what I mean. Well, even if I dont pull the chord, its sure been fun fantasizing. If I Do do this, how am i going to feel next year when the 450-500 hp SVT stang is released? Or, at the same time, when the next gen M3 with the 400 hp V8 version of the M5's V10 is released?! So many cars to drive, so little time
I gotta tell you, for some reason, the thought of owning this car has taken up residence in my brain. Its captured something in me, and Im no kid. Im old enough to remember the original goat! Only thing is, can you imagine what all my M3 friends are going to say?! Over the 6 yrs since Ive owned my '99 M3, Ive made alot of close friends all of whom are bmw drivers. Since Ive heavily modded mine, that drew us even closer, as we shared time helping each other out with our superchargers and turbos, and intercoolers, etc, etc.
Whats weird is that as recently as a yr ago, I would no more have considered a domestic car than I would have considered rooting for the redsox (im from NY
). Whats turned me around? I think one thing is that I started to realize car makers today are world wide partnerships: ford-volvo-saab-etc; chrysler-mercedes; etc, etc. The result is that even Consumers Reports who never found a domestic car they didnt love to hate has turned the corner on american cars. Finally, they seem to be supporting domestic cars as the peer of most other makes. Well, nobody has the reliability toyota and honda. But that aside, after owning my M3 since new in '99, Id be very surprised if a Gto, or a mustang, for example, wouldnt be at Least as reliable, and probably a good deal more so. Can you imagine what the press would say if any american car had as many maladies as my BMW did: tranny lost 5th gear and needed replacement at 43k miles; Unibody around the rear shock towers cracked needing a weld in replacement fix at 47k miles; the radiators and their plastic bits routinely crack off the throat leaving you stranded; and just last month, at just 65k miles, the head had to come off for a complete rebuild due to worn valves. Thats one lousy track record.. Ok, true, I added a Vortech sc system at just 5k miles on the car, and this is known to increase the wear clock.. But NOT by this much! No doubt, these problems are one of the reasons Im looking at the gto, and yes, the mustang too. Im going to think long and hard before doing any major upgrades to my next car which change the basic architecture of the car, like super or turbocharging the engine. Thats one of the reasons IM looking at V8s only. And the 400 hp gto is probably as fast as my Supercharged M3; maybe even faster.. Anybody know what they put down on the dyno? My M3 pulled 353 rwhp, and 290 wheel trq, and that was on a 96 degree day according to the dynojet reported temperature reading in Fla, which is equivalent to about 430 engine hp, and 355 engine ft lbs.. And at just 3200 lbs, its easy to see how well this car moves. Its also got Fikse FM10s all around, and a lowered Koni suspension assembled by Dinan engineering for BMW. Clearly this is a one of a kind custom delight. Yea, I know, I gotta be nuts to get rid of it. Maybe Im just mad at it; its been in the shop for a month now, getting the head rebuilt, new radiator put in, and the biggest delay is getting the blower back from Vortech, where we sent it for their minor Rebuild, since the car was going to be down anyway to fix the valves. Well, its suppposed to be delivered to the shop today, so they can button it back up, test it, and tell me to come pick it up, hopefully. But, with each major repair, i get a little more gunshy; a little more cautious about hammering the throttle, etc. You know what I mean. Well, even if I dont pull the chord, its sure been fun fantasizing. If I Do do this, how am i going to feel next year when the 450-500 hp SVT stang is released? Or, at the same time, when the next gen M3 with the 400 hp V8 version of the M5's V10 is released?! So many cars to drive, so little time
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Heh, don't get me started on Toyota "reliability". '01 Avalon, on the 2nd transmission, the first one cooked the fluid for no reason, finally replaced underwarranty at 37k. Speakers lose volume and all highs for no reason. Rear window leaked water into the car, and had standing water in the trunk...I don't think I need to go on.paul e said:
Suffice it to say EVERY manufacturer has issues. Honda was having transmission problems not too long ago. I will say that Honda and Toyota will more quickly handle issues, than let it get to the media and have them have a field day with it.
As for your BMW friends, hopefully they'll appreciate the GTO and nothing much will change. If not, were they really friends?
My thoghts, an aftermarket shifter will definitely improve things, a B & M for example. The stock shifter does take a little getting used to. However once you have put a few miles on it and know where the gates are, you should be fine. I can see where you could loose a race by not know precisely where a gear is or if you are going to successfuly engage it once you get going. This is the last thing you need from red light to red light. you could loose precious miliseconds.
With regards to making or breaking a deal, no way. That Tremect M6 Transmission was made for the LS1 & 2 Engines. It does a wondeful job of managing the power from the motor. I have always owned a manual transmission car and maunuals where the first cars I learned to drive.
On M3s, I own a late model M3, somehow the conversation always comes down to a comparison between both cars. Both cars post very similar numbers, however, they are VERY different cars. The GTO is simply put a MUSCLE car. A muscle car that handles very well, much better than what muscle cars of old where known for. The M3 is sports coupe that does what we have come to expect from excellent sports coupes.
Overall, they are two very different autos, I never had a new Muscle car, that was before my time, this was my chance, I grabbbed it. I grew up with coupe cars. I was tired of stories from uncles about the muscle cars they drove in their yournger days.
With regards to making or breaking a deal, no way. That Tremect M6 Transmission was made for the LS1 & 2 Engines. It does a wondeful job of managing the power from the motor. I have always owned a manual transmission car and maunuals where the first cars I learned to drive.
On M3s, I own a late model M3, somehow the conversation always comes down to a comparison between both cars. Both cars post very similar numbers, however, they are VERY different cars. The GTO is simply put a MUSCLE car. A muscle car that handles very well, much better than what muscle cars of old where known for. The M3 is sports coupe that does what we have come to expect from excellent sports coupes.
Overall, they are two very different autos, I never had a new Muscle car, that was before my time, this was my chance, I grabbbed it. I grew up with coupe cars. I was tired of stories from uncles about the muscle cars they drove in their yournger days.
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Two things.
First, it's always tough moving on from a car to which you feel really attached. That's all the more true when you've formed a bond with that car by working on it yourself. I can't tell you when it's the right time to move on, but it's usually a cost-benefit decision, isn't it? When you start having to pay more and more and are getting increasingly less and less back, that's not really a trend that's going to reverse course.
Second, whenever you take the plunge and buy anything--a car, a computer, a television, a cell phone, whatever--the second hand on the "obsolete stopwatch" starts. In other words, it won't be long before someone comes along and one-ups whatever it is you just bought. Just a fact of life. The point is, no matter how long you wait, this'll always be true. And since it'll always be true, why not jump in NOW? And your GTO will have a warranty, so any repairs are on the General.
One final thing: The great thing about GTOs is that they make their power easily. No thrashing, flogging, or revving to within an inch of its life. The oomph is just always there, a hairsbreadth of throttle away. A lot of cars go fast; not all cars go fast with composure. Or for only $32k.
First, it's always tough moving on from a car to which you feel really attached. That's all the more true when you've formed a bond with that car by working on it yourself. I can't tell you when it's the right time to move on, but it's usually a cost-benefit decision, isn't it? When you start having to pay more and more and are getting increasingly less and less back, that's not really a trend that's going to reverse course.
Second, whenever you take the plunge and buy anything--a car, a computer, a television, a cell phone, whatever--the second hand on the "obsolete stopwatch" starts. In other words, it won't be long before someone comes along and one-ups whatever it is you just bought. Just a fact of life. The point is, no matter how long you wait, this'll always be true. And since it'll always be true, why not jump in NOW? And your GTO will have a warranty, so any repairs are on the General.
One final thing: The great thing about GTOs is that they make their power easily. No thrashing, flogging, or revving to within an inch of its life. The oomph is just always there, a hairsbreadth of throttle away. A lot of cars go fast; not all cars go fast with composure. Or for only $32k.
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For the kind of money you would spend for the M3 or the SVT Cobra you can put a S/C on the GTO or heads and cam and get that kind of power. then with the money left over??????????paul e said:Thank you Kid. Thats good to hear. Theres a Buick/Pontiac showroom a half mile from me.. I think maybe Ill take a ride (or a walk) over there today.. I read from online inventory, they had 2 in stock, but both with the stock automatic tranny, of course. So I wont be able to tell much about the stick, but at least Ill be able to sit in it, and get a feel for the interior, and maybe theyll even let me listen to the engine!
I gotta tell you, for some reason, the thought of owning this car has taken up residence in my brain. Its captured something in me, and Im no kid. Im old enough to remember the original goat! Only thing is, can you imagine what all my M3 friends are going to say?! Over the 6 yrs since Ive owned my '99 M3, Ive made alot of close friends all of whom are bmw drivers. Since Ive heavily modded mine, that drew us even closer, as we shared time helping each other out with our superchargers and turbos, and intercoolers, etc, etc.
Whats weird is that as recently as a yr ago, I would no more have considered a domestic car than I would have considered rooting for the redsox (im from NY
No doubt, these problems are one of the reasons Im looking at the gto, and yes, the mustang too. Im going to think long and hard before doing any major upgrades to my next car which change the basic architecture of the car, like super or turbocharging the engine. Thats one of the reasons IM looking at V8s only. And the 400 hp gto is probably as fast as my Supercharged M3; maybe even faster.. Anybody know what they put down on the dyno? My M3 pulled 353 rwhp, and 290 wheel trq, and that was on a 96 degree day according to the dynojet reported temperature reading in Fla, which is equivalent to about 430 engine hp, and 355 engine ft lbs.. And at just 3200 lbs, its easy to see how well this car moves. Its also got Fikse FM10s all around, and a lowered Koni suspension assembled by Dinan engineering for BMW. Clearly this is a one of a kind custom delight. Yea, I know, I gotta be nuts to get rid of it. Maybe Im just mad at it; its been in the shop for a month now, getting the head rebuilt, new radiator put in, and the biggest delay is getting the blower back from Vortech, where we sent it for their minor Rebuild, since the car was going to be down anyway to fix the valves. Well, its suppposed to be delivered to the shop today, so they can button it back up, test it, and tell me to come pick it up, hopefully. But, with each major repair, i get a little more gunshy; a little more cautious about hammering the throttle, etc. You know what I mean. Well, even if I dont pull the chord, its sure been fun fantasizing. If I Do do this, how am i going to feel next year when the 450-500 hp SVT stang is released? Or, at the same time, when the next gen M3 with the 400 hp V8 version of the M5's V10 is released?! So many cars to drive, so little time
The B&M shifter and the change to Royal purple for the tranny was around 300 parts and labor. I thought the shifter was sloppy stock, but liveable. The B&M makes a world of difference. It is a must in my book.
The area where you will have the hardest time with the GTO is the handling. It just is not a scalpel like the M3. With all the weight it has, it would be hard to make it one. The ride is great though and the handling not bad for a 3800 lb GT car.
This is so true.. Well.. I just went to a dealership, to see these goats in the flesh. He had Two on the floor, both with the 6 spds, believe it or not... They said they order them all that way. This was my impression. First, no test drives for anyone, on a GTO, they said.. So Im going to have to find a friendly board member I guess.. But heres the real problem.. I really really liked the interior.. Very good seats with good support, and loads of leather.. The interior has nothing to apologize for. I even thought the shifter, which I was expecting to hate from what I read, was ok.. I think it was the equal of my M3 shifter, before I installed my SSK! So Far So good.. right? But the problem, as we all know, is that exterior... I dont care how much I love the interior, and the engine.. With me, Im afraid that if it ultimately doesnt stir the juices when you look at it, its going to be a miss instead of a hit. What got me hooked initially on my E36 M3 was the exterior.. To me, it has classic, great proportions that are completely timeless. It is one of those cars that just looks muscular sitting there. But this GTO is such a huge miss on the outside, that its surprising nobody stopped them from making this huge mistake.. Those of us who remember what a GTO was remember how it was one of those bodies which demanded to be looked at. You couldnt go more opposite than this. Why oh Why... Now, I found this pic of an amber colored o4 with this pkg called 'Ram Air-6-FA' whatever that is... .. If only they had given it these proportions, theyd be selling so many, people would be saying 'Mustang who?'!! Its not just the scoops and airdams.. The proportions are much more M3-like.. its one of those bodies that looks like its flying standing still. What more can I say.. they had it within their grasp, and just blew it... It really pisses me off.. I wanted so badly to like it.. But if IM going to finally go domestic, after owning only imports and Euros, its going to have to be something which stirs the soul to be looked at, as well, as performance wise.GM Kid said:
Then I went to a ford showroom to scope out a GT.. I found that there Are None.. Not til '06s come out in Jan at least. And of course , Ford totally misallocated automatics and sticks so that its going to be damn hard to even get a gt stick. Cant these domestic makers get it right?! Damn.. is it any wonder theyve lost the performance business to the imports?!! Sorry for the rant.. Im just let down at this point.. This was the killer.. Back in the pointiac showroom. Im sitting there in the dark grey one, playing with the shifter, when I look up, and heres this guy with a short sleeve polyester shirt, and poly ester tie half tied, half untied. Shirt tail out... really looking like a slob.. Turns out, hes the asst sales manager! As if that werent bad enough, both the yellow and the grey GTOs had drips of grease and what looked like soda down the sides of them. Like nobody there even gives a ****.. Thats not the way to win over new buyers!
Update... Just finished looking through the 05 galleries.. I saw alot of aftermarket pkgs, and there was this one in black, with subtle thin orange racing stripes down the top sides, with these awsome wheels with black centers, that I thought was to die for.. Just possibly i can get hooked on these looks after all .. Truth be known.. when the E46 M3 first came out, I HATED that too. but i learned to love it after a while .. Actually, I hated All the Bangel BMWS. So If I could learn to like those, I suppose I could learn to like the blandish gtos. Do you guys think the apperance kits help? Those quad tips sure look nice.. How much extra to get those kits bought and installed before you take delivery?
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If you want a flashy car, get a flashy car. At first glance, I scoffed when my friend suggested I get a GTO. It was a picture of an '04 (sans hood scoops) and it looked a little bland for my tastes. I think the '05 is the right balance of laidback sexiness. I love how the new GTO looks, inside and out. Just my opinion. :coolpaul e said:
I Stall Automatics said:
Is that all you got out of my posts? It would help if you would read a little more carefully, and watch out for thinking every comment on the admitted general week point of these cars, ie, the exterior, is a personal attack on your beloved new car.. It couldnt be farther from what the intent is.
Im far from alone in wishing it had a more exciting exterior.. That DOES NOT MEAN FLASHY in case you didnt know... Correct proportions from an artistic sense most certainly are NOT flashy.. Camaros were flashy, and I considered them rather Gaudy. Do you think an M3 is Flashy? LOL.. flashy its not.. its really quite conservative, particularly my E36. But, what it does have is correct proportions, to evoke a certain feeling from most people upon viewing it... IF you went around the room and asked most people what they felt when they viewd the stock GTO, most of them are pretty unmoved. Its not for lack of flash either. .thats got absolutely nothing to do with it.. Listen.. Love your car as much as you like.. That doesnt mean you have to deny the one obvious flaw.. I love my M, but Im not about to claim its perfect.. Lets be a little more objective around here :confused Listen.. I already admitted that I hated most of Bangels new BMW designs, but even some of them have grown on me.. Listen, I wouldnt put it at all past me that before long I would fall in love with its appearance.. I mean, it is possible.. but the difference is, with the bmws, while i didnt like them at first, there at least is alot going on, so that while people can call them ugly, nobody can rightly say that theres nothing going on stylewise.. Cant quite say the same about the goat exteriors. Bland as bland can be.. in other words, theres not alot there that can jump out and change your mind.. theres no subtle line there which can be misunderstood the first few times you see it.. Pretty much, what you see is what you get.. either you like it, or you dont. From what i hear of sales, more dont than do. I still think the car's got alot going for it though, and Im a long way from being out of the potential buyer mix.
Ok.. in case you still have no idea what im talking about, Ill come right out and say it, although its certainly been commented on enough around here.. The problem with the exterior of this car is that its so damn DERIVATIVE. That pretty much sums it up.
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LOL..... I meet bmw folks all over the place... But Hey.. aT least IM investigating this gto thing.. What brings YOU over here? IM just a little pissed at my car at the moment. And IM going through some kind of thing with this latter day muscle car. Gotta tell you.. this gto isnt half bad.. really like the interior. Anyway, george ics says the m should be finished by the wkend.. Im having fun fantasizing about this gto torque meister in the meantimeSweetride01 said:
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I'm here because I'm considering a replacement for my dad's TL-S. And THAT car was bought narrowly over an '03 Mustang Cobra, the deal breaker was that the dealer was a flat-out liar.paul e said:
As much fun as the Cobra would have been, I realize that the TL is a more practical (and executive) choice. However, to an extent, the GTO is more practical than the Mustang also. It's more understated and more spacious.
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