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I am looking to purchase a 1969 GTO. I am not to familiar with the GTO'S. Could someone please fill me in on some things to look for when I go to see the car Saturday. Like how to tell if it is a true GTO and not a clone. Is there a certain digit (s) I need to look for in the vin # etc. Anything you guys think I need to look at or for will be very helpful. Some basics is it has 2 motors and one is supposed too be the original, it is a 4 speed car with bucket seats. I believe it is black on black. as well. Thank you in advance..New member here.
 

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The vin number will begin with the digits "242" on a real 69 GTO. On the original engine, you'll be able to find the serial number portion of the vin (last several digits) on the front of the engine block, down low, next to the passenger side of the timing cover. (Don't confuse this with the 2 character id code and the numeric sequence number that's also on the passenger side but up high, near the cylinder deck.) If this number doesn't match the vin, it's not the original engine.

The vin should also be on top of the frame on the drivers side, between the rear wheel and the end of the frame. This one is very tough to see with the body on the car unless you get lucky with a mirror.

Bear
 

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The vin number will begin with the digits "242" on a real 69 GTO. On the original engine, you'll be able to find the serial number portion of the vin (last several digits) on the front of the engine block, down low, next to the passenger side of the timing cover. (Don't confuse this with the 2 character id code and the numeric sequence number that's also on the passenger side but up high, near the cylinder deck.) If this number doesn't match the vin, it's not the original engine.

The vin should also be on top of the frame on the drivers side, between the rear wheel and the end of the frame. This one is very tough to see with the body on the car unless you get lucky with a mirror.

Bear
Ok that is some great info. Thank you. Now as far as the motor goes is the 400 the only engine that came in that year or was there a special edition motor of any type?
 

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Also is there any significant item that with tell me if it is a "Judge" or just a GTO. From everything I looked up the vin # is the same for both "242 37"??
 

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Also is there any significant item that with tell me if it is a "Judge" or just a GTO. From everything I looked up the vin # is the same for both "242 37"??
Ok from everything I read it is hard to tell a real judge from a clone..the vin #"s are the same but it did give me a few good tips to look for.

Did the 4 speeds in the GTO's come with a Muncie or Saginaw trans?
 

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the best way if you are serious is to order PHS documents (50.00 or so) before striking a deal they are basically the build sheet for your VIN so it will tell you exactly how the car came from the factory. As for the Judge they will tell you that also as it was an option to the GTO. Judge would in most cases (not all) have the tail spoiler, with two torsion bars on the trunk hinges, hood tach, functional hood scoops, RAIII or IV motor, "The Judge" dash emblem.

Muncies
 

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Ok that is some great info. Thank you. Now as far as the motor goes is the 400 the only engine that came in that year or was there a special edition motor of any type?
Every 69 GTO left the factory with a 400 (well, rumors of "special build cars" for factory execs and insiders notwithstanding)..
There were at least 4 different 400's though: Ram Air IV, Ram Air III, "regular" GTO, and even a 2-barrel version. Id'ing which one this car has is a two step process: 1) decode the 4-character date code on the top rear of the block next to the distributor. This determines the model year and it's important because the same "engine id code" was used in different years to mean different things. 2) decode the 2-character engine id code on the passenger side front of the block, just below the head.

You can use the same process on cylinder heads: start with the date code to nail down the model year, then use the head casting number (usually larger 2, sometimes 3 character code on top of the center two exhaust ports, but not always).

Do a web search for "pontiac engine codes" and you'll find several sites with the codes and where to find them on the engine. Always use several different sites - sometimes people make mistakes.

As far as id'ing a judge, the only reliable way is to send the complete vin to PHS and pay their fee to get the documentation on the car.

Bear
 
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