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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New article in the Oct. issue of Motor Trend details the possibility of Holden's Commodore SS-V coming to the US as the new Grand Prix.

It supposedly is powered by a 6.0 Vortec V-8 with 362 hp and 390 torque and available with 6spd or auto trans. with rear wheel drive.

It will be interesting to see what Gm does. I for one hope they bring it!
 

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Given the way the GTO sold, I doubt if GM would try rebadging another Holden product. No matter how good it is...

If Pontiac really wants to move to a rear drive line up they better take the same route DC did with the 300/Charger. An original design with shared technology from an already successful platform.

If they do try it, they better not call it the Grand Prix. Call it the G8 or some other original name.
 

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I don’t believe that the weak sales of the GTO were in any way attributable to the fact that it was a rebadged Holden. The 2004 was pretty bland by most standards, the scoops helped a lot. I think the biggest problem was the price and drivetrain. It is not surprising that a car with only a 400 HP 6.0L V8 engine didn’t fly off the lots. Everyone on this board does not think this way, but the majority of Americans like to look at these cars but think owning something like this is frivolous and an impractical waste of money. A V6 powered car with a reasonable amount of power would actually appeal to the masses more, as unbelievable as it seems to us. The sales of V6 Mustangs, Camaros, Firebirds, Chargers, 300C's, Magnums and soon to be Challengers SERIOUSLY outweighs the 300+ Horse V8 versions and the 425 Horse SRT/SVT/Shelby models are about as rare as Ebola. Love the SRT's, SS's, and WS6's buy the $20K base model cause you have no gonads and that’s all the wife will allow or its all you can afford. Think of it like this, how many Chargers do you seriously think would be on the road right now if the ONLY drivetrain was the SRT8? In addition a $32K car, no matter how good a performance deal it is, is still out of reach for a huge percentage of Americans. With a few thousand dollars down a $32,000 car is a $600 a month car payment, not to mention the insurance rates. The Holden Grand Prix presented will offer 2 - V6 choices and a V8. Keep the Holden design and build quality, offer the sheeple V6 for all the posers and stuff a V8 in for the increasingly rare driving enthusiast and I think that car will sell like the Mustang and Charger. Something GM and Pontiac desperately need right now. I don’t see where GM has a bad taste in its mouth from the Holden GTO. Before the public even had a chance to buy one, GM already set production to a microscopic 15K/year. That shows they knew full well this was going to be a very limited enthusiast only seller.
 

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JMVorbeck said:
I don’t believe that the weak sales of the GTO were in any way attributable to the fact that it was a rebadged Holden. The 2004 was pretty bland by most standards, the scoops helped a lot. I think the biggest problem was the price and drivetrain. It is not surprising that a car with only a 400 HP 6.0L V8 engine didn’t fly off the lots. Everyone on this board does not think this way, but the majority of Americans like to look at these cars but think owning something like this is frivolous and an impractical waste of money. A V6 powered car with a reasonable amount of power would actually appeal to the masses more, as unbelievable as it seems to us. The sales of V6 Mustangs, Camaros, Firebirds, Chargers, 300C's, Magnums and soon to be Challengers SERIOUSLY outweighs the 300+ Horse V8 versions and the 425 Horse SRT/SVT/Shelby models are about as rare as Ebola. Love the SRT's, SS's, and WS6's buy the $20K base model cause you have no gonads and that’s all the wife will allow or its all you can afford. Think of it like this, how many Chargers do you seriously think would be on the road right now if the ONLY drivetrain was the SRT8? In addition a $32K car, no matter how good a performance deal it is, is still out of reach for a huge percentage of Americans. With a few thousand dollars down a $32,000 car is a $600 a month car payment, not to mention the insurance rates. The Holden Grand Prix presented will offer 2 - V6 choices and a V8. Keep the Holden design and build quality, offer the sheeple V6 for all the posers and stuff a V8 in for the increasingly rare driving enthusiast and I think that car will sell like the Mustang and Charger. Something GM and Pontiac desperately need right now. I don’t see where GM has a bad taste in its mouth from the Holden GTO. Before the public even had a chance to buy one, GM already set production to a microscopic 15K/year. That shows they knew full well this was going to be a very limited enthusiast only seller.
You may need to rethink your ideas. My insurance rate went down over 25 bucks a month. FOR GOD'S SAKE, ADVERTISE THE VEHICLE. The GTO did not even get moderate advertising. Most people do NOT know what it is. That says volumes for the car. Personally, I am glad I got one. :confused I am not sure your thinking is complete
 

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I am glad I got one too, as is everyone on this board to be sure. We are enthusiasts. So, are you saying that you think the poor sales was due to no advertising and not because it is only available is the full 400HP V8 edition? As that is all I am saying. Check out the sales numbers for the high-po versions of the competitors vs. the base V6 counterparts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I think what appeals to me from all this is:
1. 4 door
2. Rear wheel drive
3. Stick shift
4. V8.

When you have a family, sometimes you have to make concessions. As of late there hasn't been a lot of GM cars that that do all things well.
Just my .02.
 

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noz34me said:
zerosum said:
Given the way the GTO sold, I doubt if GM would try rebadging another Holden product. No matter how good it is...

QUOTE]
I believe I read that Holden is designing the new Camaro, but it will be built here- - -
The Camaro is being received so well because it is based on the design of the car from the late 60's. It is targeted for the American market. Holden is bringing the quality and recent RWD experience to the table.

Don't get me wrong. I love my car and I think it looks great. But let's face it... when our design came off the drawing board "Monaro" not "GTO" was on the corner of the blueprint.

Both the Monaro and the Commodore sell very well down under. The GTO proved that even though it is an awesome car, that does not translate into sales.

Badge engineering has it's limits.
 

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The reason the GTO didn't sell was because it wasn't practical for most people. The sales are in more affordable models like ones with a V6 and an option for 4 doors. Which is exactly what they have down under.
I'm sure if someone cound find sales figures, it'd look very similar to sales figures in the states for similar cars. V6 sales way ahead of the V8 sales.
 

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not to mention with everyone so conscious of fuel consumption. a thirsty V8 just isnt as appealing for most people, especially in a 2 door car. People might be willing to tolerate 17-20mpg as a tradeoff for the utility of a SUV, but when you're hard pressed to carry a set of golf clubs, suddenly 17-20mpg seems like a major waste
 

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GTO sales

I work in the industry [seating] and I can confirm that Holden is in charge of design for the Camaro, but it will be built in Oshawa, Ontario. Volumes are projected to be 106,000 per year, so you know there will be a V6. A convertible will be offered.

Poor GTO sales here in the states were due to all the reasons mentioned above, but especially poor marketing. At least once a week someone comes up to me in a parking lot and asks what that car is, what kind of engine it had, etc. And I live in Detroit! That is unforgivably terrible marketing.
 

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Catera = 4 door GTO

I owned a 1998 Cadillac Catera, and it was the close to being a 4-door GTO;
good power (not enough, of course), rear wheel drive and four doors. It was an Opel product brought to the States by GM. I've often wondered if Holden and Opel shared floor pans, cause they look so similar.
 
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