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Discussion Starter #1
Just my 1st view of this 1970 242370Pxxxxxx
Car being sold as 1970 400 4 speed ... non matching
Owner said the non matching 400 was a 1970 YD code that has been rebuilt and has many differing parts (heads / intake / exhaust / carb ...)
BUT the Front Block clearly says YS but no other numbers are seen in that area (odd ? though not important)
the Rear Facing Back Passenger side Block is cast is 841988
the Rear Top under the distributor is (see attached) I can't really tell what it says (hard to see and photo)
the Front Right along the side of the timing cover is blank (as far as I could see)

Thats all I got (so far)

I prefer a 1970 Block but not a deal breaker

Can someone read the 2 pix attached under the distributor ? for the year ?

also the passenger side head "front facing" reads SR 834 - I can't find any thing related to that head number ... (no big deal anyway +-)

Thx

C
 

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I assume you meant to type 481988 for the block casting number. These were used in '71 thru early '75 model cars. Not used in '70.

The date code looks to me to be A041. if this is the case, it was cast Jan 4, 1971. A block with that date code would likely to have been used in a '71 model car.


Looks like a YS code 481988 block could have been used in a '71, '72, '73, or early '75.

Wallace Racing's Pontiac Engine Search

The head ID numbers would be cast with the head, over the center exhaust ports. '71 400 4-barrel heads would probably be #96. But, most any Pontiac heads could have been bolted on, at some point in time.

The 1st pic of a #96 head, shows a date code of L150. So, it was cast in late '70 & used on a '71 400 engine. The 2nd pic is a #96 head with a B191 date code, cast in Feb of '71. It was also used on a '71 model engine. Don't know how many different months these were cast in. But these heads were used only on '71 model year 400 engines.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
the Rear Facing Back Passenger side Block is cast is 841988 = wrong

Yes my typo -

it's 481988 on the block rear and clearly says YS on the front

can anyone decode my low quality picture of the cast block number code from under the distributor ares ?

I can't

Thanks

C
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thank You

1971 400 YS code engine

Year Engine HP Engine code Trans CR Cam Head Code BBL Carb No. Misc
1971 400 300 HP YS A 8.2 067 96 1-4 7041264 Block Casting # 481988

Now it has been rebuilt to ... frankenmotor ...
 

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"also the passenger side head "front facing" reads SR 834 - I can't find any thing related to that head number ... (no big deal anyway +-)"

"SR" typically means "Service Replacement." However, this would be found on the front of the block and not the head.
 

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Interested in seeing a photo of the SR stamp along with a zoomed out view to show relative location.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #8
SR 834 sorry to say I didn't take a picture - it was so clear ...
It was somewhat above the YS stamp, on the right bank head facing the radiator
 

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here is some info from 2 sellers ago
obviously some of it is NOT correct
Sneaky, or perhaps ignorant himself. I noticed he said the engine "came out of another 1970 GTO", but nowhere does he claim that the engine was original to that car either. Obviously, considering the date code, it MAY have come from another 70 but if so, there's no way it was original to that car.

At this point I'd be very suspicious of any claims he has made with regard to this car (for example, the claim that it has 4-bolt mains). The heads, even if they are Ram Air III's, aren't any more special or different than any other D-port Pontiac head in those years with large valves and screw-in studs.

Bear
 

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"...The heads, even if they are Ram Air III's, aren't any more special or different than any other D-port Pontiac head in those years with large valves and screw-in studs..."


I suppose I'll have to disagree with that statement. For a guy wanting to build a numbers correct, '69 RA3 4-speed GTO, I think the #48 heads could be considered a bit more "special" than #12 , #13 , #16 , or #62 heads, used in '68-'70.

But of course, the performance potential is about equal, I assume.

I suppose that, for me, it would be sorta like saying that a real '69 GTO is not any more "special" than a '69 Lemans, since the Lemans can be built into a GTO clone. It could look the same, and perform the same. But the ID numbers & resale value would be different.
 

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Yes, true - for 100% numbers matching and resale value concerns, then it matters. However in terms of actual performance, all Dport, big valve, screw-in stud, nominal 72cc chamber heads are essentially "the same".
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Sneaky, or perhaps ignorant himself. I noticed he said the engine "came out of another 1970 GTO", but nowhere does he claim that the engine was original to that car either. Obviously, considering the date code, it MAY have come from another 70 but if so, there's no way it was original to that car.

At this point I'd be very suspicious of any claims he has made with regard to this car (for example, the claim that it has 4-bolt mains). The heads, even if they are Ram Air III's, aren't any more special or different than any other D-port Pontiac head in those years with large valves and screw-in studs.

Bear
At this time I believe the engine is a 1971 ... from distributor area cast & YS code ... from previous page 1

Yes, BigD already responded to you on this, but I'll repeat. Date code is A041 - January=(A) 4=(04), 1971=(1) - that's a model year 1971 block.


1971 400 YS code engine

Year Engine HP Engine code Trans CR Cam Head Code BBL Carb No. Misc
1971 400 300 HP YS A 8.2 067 96 1-4 7041264 Block Casting # 481988


Current seller had no idea of casts or stamps until I showed up :surprise:
 

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At this time I believe the engine is a 1971 ... from distributor area cast & YS code ... from previous page 1

Yes, BigD already responded to you on this, but I'll repeat. Date code is A041 - January=(A) 4=(04), 1971=(1) - that's a model year 1971 block.


1971 400 YS code engine

Year Engine HP Engine code Trans CR Cam Head Code BBL Carb No. Misc
1971 400 300 HP YS A 8.2 067 96 1-4 7041264 Block Casting # 481988


Current seller had no idea of casts or stamps until I showed up :surprise:
OK, so you know what you have, a 1971 engine. With regards to all the forged items and 4-bolt mains, you would not know if these were added or not. They were not factory installed. So it is possible since the current seller claims he knows nothing of casting numbers or stamps, that I would have to go out on a limb and say he is repeating what the previous owner before him told him the engine had in it. That said, I would not hinge any of the price on other than a stock '71 400CI engine without receipts or the name of the machine shop that installed/rebuilt the engine with all the upgraded goodies. Of course it could have all the upgrades, but unless you can confirm it, I would not assume it did.

The engine is still a good foundation and has potential for performance if you were planning on rebuilding it or upgrading. :thumbsup:

And none of us are trying to discourage you from buying the car, just pointing out what you are actually getting. :yesnod:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
OK, so you know what you have, a 1971 engine. With regards to all the forged items and 4-bolt mains, you would not know if these were added or not. They were not factory installed. So it is possible since the current seller claims he knows nothing of casting numbers or stamps, that I would have to go out on a limb and say he is repeating what the previous owner before him told him the engine had in it. That said, I would not hinge any of the price on other than a stock '71 400CI engine without receipts or the name of the machine shop that installed/rebuilt the engine with all the upgraded goodies. Of course it could have all the upgrades, but unless you can confirm it, I would not assume it did.

The engine is still a good foundation and has potential for performance if you were planning on rebuilding it or upgrading. :thumbsup:

And none of us are trying to discourage you from buying the car, just pointing out what you are actually getting. :yesnod:

Appreciate all comments ...

car ran smooth and strong, interior was good at best, floor & trunk pan appears fine with previous solid repairs, BUT the exterior needs help --- a few rots thru's on each door and numerous surface bubbling, the hood was just redone and primed. and the front bumper has a 3/4" gap on the passenger side / fender (and does not easily push back into position (?)) The paint is OK except for where the many body issues are evident which means zip (+-) Frame looked all there but I'd have to check it more closely if I were to consider the car (which I'm not) I prefer less body issues

Seller said a body shop quoted body repair and paint about $ 7000, so that is more than I care to get involved in ...

plus I have all winter (or more to shop) lots for sale out there

It is a 1970 242 vin and 400 4 speed car (M20) & posi car - so it was close but I'm needing less issues to address (and it has an unknown 1971 engine rebuild)

I'm searching for a 69 or 70 real 242 4 speed car, with a 69 or 70 400 or 455 engine (ideally period correct motor / 10 to 1 compression +-)
I would consider a clone / tribute if it's appeals to me.
I'm not interested in rebuilding the 71 & up motor or redoing a rotted body

Funny thing is of 4 cars I've looked at this month NONE of the owners bothered ever to check cast & stamp numbers - so they just bought what looked ok +- on the sellers word I assume.
 

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Appreciate all comments ...

car ran smooth and strong, interior was good at best, floor & trunk pan appears fine with previous solid repairs, BUT the exterior needs help --- a few rots thru's on each door and numerous surface bubbling, the hood was just redone and primed. and the front bumper has a 3/4" gap on the passenger side / fender (and does not easily push back into position (?)) The paint is OK except for where the many body issues are evident which means zip (+-) Frame looked all there but I'd have to check it more closely if I were to consider the car (which I'm not) I prefer less body issues

Seller said a body shop quoted body repair and paint about $ 7000, so that is more than I care to get involved in ...

plus I have all winter (or more to shop) lots for sale out there

It is a 1970 242 vin and 400 4 speed car (M20) & posi car - so it was close but I'm needing less issues to address (and it has an unknown 1971 engine rebuild)

I'm searching for a 69 or 70 real 242 4 speed car, with a 69 or 70 400 or 455 engine (ideally period correct motor / 10 to 1 compression +-)
I would consider a clone / tribute if it's appeals to me.
I'm not interested in rebuilding the 71 & up motor or redoing a rotted body

Funny thing is of 4 cars I've looked at this month NONE of the owners bothered ever to check cast & stamp numbers - so they just bought what looked ok +- on the sellers word I assume.
Great evaluation of the car and your honest thoughts on what you are looking for. As you noted, on the 4th car and you are learning that many owners don't know that much about their cars and buy them on appearance or options in a price range they feel is affordable to them. You, on the other hand, have the knowledge of what it is you are looking for and know when to pass on a car that will require more work$$ and is most likely not a good investment - and why so many become upside down when first purchasing and then restoring. :yesnod:
 

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"...I'm searching for a 69 or 70 real 242 4 speed car, with a 69 or 70 400 or 455 engine (ideally period correct motor / 10 to 1 compression +-)
I would consider a clone / tribute if it's appeals to me..."


That leaves quite a range of possibilities.

A '70 clone will probably be the cheapest. A real '69 will probably be the highest.

If you plan to do a lot of street driving, 9.5:1 or less CR might be a bit safer with today's pump gas. A very popular engine combo is a 455 with 6X heads. But, the 6X heads are not period correct. I think a '70 GTO 455 had #64 heads.

This 1st one ain't a GTO, or even a clone. It's just a Lemans. But, it has a 400/4-speed & looks good.

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/1131599/1970-pontiac-lemans-for-sale-in-tupelo-mississippi-38804

I have no idea if any of these adds are still good or not. They may be completely bogus.

https://www.cars-on-line.com/gen3-cars/col1/posting/53621

https://www.autozin.com/1969-pontiac-gto-14444901-atzlisting

https://www.autozin.com/for-sale/pontiac-gto#carid=14384432

https://www.autozin.com/for-sale/pontiac-gto#carid=14431477

https://www.autozin.com/for-sale/pontiac-gto#carid=14429840

https://www.autozin.com/for-sale/pontiac-gto#carid=14393368

http://napoliclassics.com/inventory/1069027-1970-Pontiac-GTO#.XAI014FKjnF

https://www.merlinautogroup.com/1970-pontiac-gto-ht-c-561.htm

https://thevettenet.com/listing_details.php?listingID=6613
 
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