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Discussion Starter #1
Hey Guys new here

I just looked at a 65 whats supposed to be a GTO. The car has been sanded on and a few patches put on the lower quarters. Looks to be a decent car. I have had a 66 and 71 but the 65 ID codes seem to be a different story.

Here is what I have any help will be good.

Vin 237675P354426

Data plate under hood

07C 1
st 65-23767
PON13726
tr 213-b
w 2wp
4f
5w
45-2
c2
 

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The 23767 indicates a Convertible Lemans. It is possible it was a GTO. On the 65s the best way to check is through PHS. If the car has had lower quarter patches, beware. If the seem was cut below the original spot where the GTO emblem was you could sand the metal down and verify only 3 holes (or maybe 2...it was a much smaller emblem). The lemans got about 2 holes per letter, where the gto only had 3 holes. Look for the console and higher options. GTO's typically came with more options, but there are still low option ones there.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I looked at the car this evening and got the numbers, I will go back and look at it again. I here talk about the 5nw in the data plate this car just has a 5w.

The PHS document is good but when a deal comes up who has time to get it before the car gets sold. I only have a day or two to make a move before it gets gone.

I noticed some 65 Lemans have louvers at the bottom of the front fenders. Is this a Lemans only item or did some GTO's have that.

Just looking for some more area's to check. I think only lower quarters where done. I will check the holes
 

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I just bought a 65 gto not more than a month ago myself. And I did quite a bit of research before buying the car.

If the car was made in Pontiac (and this one was), there must be an 'N' present in the last line after the '5'. Ex: 5NW (manual trans) or 5N.

I'm not an expert though..
 

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I just bought a 65 gto not more than a month ago myself. And I did quite a bit of research before buying the car.

If the car was made in Pontiac (and this one was), there must be an 'N' present in the last line after the '5'. Ex: 5NW (manual trans) or 5N.

I'm not an expert though..
:agree

Coyzstze is 100% correct, on the Pontiac and Kansas City built cars the GTO option is listed on the data plate with the 5N otherwise the car is a lemans.
 

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The PHS docs can be faxed if you're in a big hurry. I always found it best to move quickly on a "good deal", but never to get in so much of a hurry as to get burned. Get the PHS if in doubt. Cheap insurance. And no, the GTO's did not have the fender louvres.
 

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No fender louvres on GTOs' Aluminium tag on drivers door shut for ID. Check drivetrain for being GTO spec 389 rather than 326 check codes' posi trac etc.. The VIN will confirm everything for sure. Clones are on the market and some very good ones :( If its substantial bucks dont rush ;)
 

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No fender louvres on GTOs' Aluminium tag on drivers door shut for ID. Check drivetrain for being GTO spec 389 rather than 326 check codes' posi trac etc.. The VIN will confirm everything for sure. Clones are on the market and some very good ones :( If its substantial bucks dont rush ;)
Where is the drivetrain tag,, The vin tag is where the door pins are in correct location. The engine I know is not orginal its a later 400 the car has a 4spd in it but I do not know if thats orginal. It had floor pan work so that throws out wether it was cut or not.

One other thing I noticed was no tach or clock just a dummy spot. I think I can buy some time on this before possible purchase. The car needs work but its a driver and comes with new interior and top.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I just bought a 65 gto not more than a month ago myself. And I did quite a bit of research before buying the car.

If the car was made in Pontiac (and this one was), there must be an 'N' present in the last line after the '5'. Ex: 5NW (manual trans) or 5N.

I'm not an expert though..
What you are telling me if the car was made in Pontiac it should say

5N or 5NW

5NW means manual trans
does 5N mean Auto

What does the 5W stand for that this one has
 

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It means it's a not a gto, and it came from the factory with a manual transmission.

5 = 1965
N = GTO option
W = Manual Trans.
Actually 5 stands for the 5th group of accessory codes, the 2 plants I mentioned above used 5N for the GTO option in 64 and 65.

Here is a better explanation of the 5 Group Accessory Code system as used for 67, the codes varied from plant to plant and year to year.

1967GTO.COM | Data Plate
 

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'N' on data plate denotes as GTO option I believe' the first part of VIN = Lemans ragtop but with the GTO option inc.. The main point is value and if more signs are towards lemans than GTO then value it according and take into account non original drivertain even if its genuine GTO body. The fact the original drivetrain is missing from casts some doubt on it being a GTO. The tach in dash was an option GTOs so there are genuine cars with no tach from factory. Option lists on these cars was so wide dont think there are any two Goats alike.
 

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Spend the 65 bucks, don't be penny wise and pound foolish. That is the best advice I can give and the least followed best I advice I can give. I once, when I was younger, learned the very hard (costly) way. I can't tell you how happy you would be with the service. I think it is phsonline.com or something like it. Just Google it- Pontiac Historical Services... no one here is a psychic medium who can look into the past and read a crystal ball or anything enough to tell you with all certainty she is a GTO(no offense, fellow board members!)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks guys for the help I am going to look the car over one more time. If I can not determine what it is I will get the PHS.

The easiest cars to decode are Mopars just type the vin in on the site listed below and you got everything you need.

Mopar Fender Tag Decoder
 

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there is no actual way to tell with out PHS- I will disagree with 05GTO about the 5- for a 65 gto the 5 stnds for the year check this for info 1965 GTO Specifications - UltimateGTO.com hope that helps
Crusty, you are talking about the 5 in the vin tag which I agree is for the year, I am talking about the 5 on the bottom line of the data plate next to the ACC. code. Here is another source stating the same thing I am saying.

Accessory Codes

If there are accessory codes on the data plate, these codes primarily identified equipment or options installed. Some codes only identify option and not specific equipment.

The accessory codes are made up of a number (except 1) and followed by one or more letters. The number in front of the code identifies which group the accessory belongs to.

5 groups make up the codes for example:

(1st Group) X = power windows, etc.

(2nd Group) P = radio (1964-1965), etc.

(3rd Group) K = dome reading lamps (1964-1965), etc

(4th Group) F = remote mirror, etc.

(5th Group) N = GTO option (1964-1965 only,

This tag is listed as;

ACC. X 2P 3K 4F 5N

VIN Plate for 1965 is located on the left front door hinge pillar. It is under the upper hinge.
 

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That tag is plant specific. If the car was from LA or another plant, it might not have that mark. PHS the car since you are in doubt. I don't understand how that could possibly be controversial with any board members in light of the info just provided by the original poster regarding the cowl tag he recited. If it was a Pontiac Michigan car and had the 5nw then I would say you probably have a GTO. Probably IF no one ever changed the cowl tag in the past 45+ years on an old LeMans. But nooooo, no one ever heard of that happening, right? Ask the Camaro guys ... hehehe

$65.00 seems like good insurance not to get burned. If you buy the car, then you would be a a_s not to have the report for the info it contains. Being a he-man, some of us want to figure out everything ourselves. I would say, having learned the lesson once, buying the PHS report IS figuring things out ourselves, the SMART way. This is a pre-242 vintage car.
 

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This is a pre-242 vintage car.
Even then, on 242 cars, the vin tag could have been swapped from a junked GTO and put on a Lemans/Tempest. There's "some" people who are not very nice and will do this kinda stuff....

Best thing to do is get the PHS Historic Services doc and see if it matches the info on the tags and the cars current options.
 
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