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GTO Forum Readers,
I recently purchased a '67 GTO convertible with 83K miles on it. It's drivable but will need a total restoration to bring it up to a quality muscle car. I have a '66 Tempest Custom convertible that is very nice along with a couple of nice Mustangs so I wasn't really looking for another car but... a friend of mine passed away leaving behind a large, GM car collection with just the one GTO. I bought it with the intent of restoring it as a memorial to my friend. Having the car for a couple of weeks now I'm learning a little bit more about the car. According to the VIN, I know it's a true '67 GTO, red with a red interior and white top. It has a 4sp, 400cu with a 4bbl Edlebrock carberator. The engine code is 'YF' which I've learned is an automatic xmission engine code. So, I know it's not a GTO engine and obviously not a numbers matching car. The car has headers instead of factory exhaust manifolds which leads me to believe there were clearance issues in using the 'YF' engine on a car with 4sp manual transmission. I drove it from north side of Indy to the east side. I thought it drove and shifted fine. Another mutual friend said that's probably the furthest it's been driven in 10 years. Now I'm trying to decide on how to restore it. First thing I've done was send the VIN into PHS to see what the car was originally equipped with. I'm somewhat spoiled in the fact that I'm second owner of Tempest and my '72 351 RA Mustang convertible. I even have the original sales receipt for the Tempest. With this GTO, I don't know the history. I'm learning real fast that GTO motors don't grow on trees. Besides having a good 'YF' motor for trading material, I was also given an original 1966 tri-power intake with 3 Rochester 2bbl carbs with the car. So I do have some swap items. If no '67 GTO motors are to be found, do I try to make the best of it with the 'YF' motor or, do I sell it and buy a Pontiac crate motor. What do you guys think? -TempestTamer
 

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Sorry to hear about your friend's passing. Sounds like a nice car with plenty of potential. I'll try and help out with your questions if I can...

How were you able to determine that you have a 400 cubic inch engine? Did you find 400 cast into the side of the block anywhere? For the most part, all Pontiac V8 engines built during the GTO years are virtually identical in size and appearance so the most practical way to identify the year/size/application is by the various casting codes and stampings that can be found on the block.

If you see 400 cast in the block then it most likely came from a 1973 or 1974 model vehicle.....or could possibly be a very late 69 model (but less likely).

The YF application code was used in 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 73 and 74 according to the charts. yes, all are for automatic transmission applications.
65 and 66 would be 389 blocks. 67 and later would be 400 cubic inch.
65 and 66 would have 2 freeze plugs per side. 67 and later would have 3.
The block cast code would be found near the distributor on 65, 66 and 67 blocks but the first part would be hard to see. The full number is 7 digits but if you can see the last 5 then we can figure out what block you have.
68 and later blocks will have the casting number on the RH side of the block, at the rear, just below the cylinder head.
69 and later blocks originally came with 11 bolt water pumps vs the 8 bolt of the 68 and earlier models so that can be a clue as well....

Since these blocks all have the same external dimensions....there shouldn't be any issue using factory style exhaust manifolds so headers were likely added just because the owner wanted them on the car.

Sounds like you ordered the PHS documents so that is a great start. If you can, try and see if you can make out the block casting number and cast date if possible. Look by the distributor base first. The cast date will be there and also the block cast number if the block is 67 or earlier. If you can't find the block casting number, then try and count how many freeze plugs you have on the side of the block and count the bolts on the water pump then report back.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you. Richard and I had worked together for 20 years. He was the Safety Director at Indianapolis Public Schools. I work for an Engineering firm that produced bid documents for their electrical and mechanical systems. He'd only been retired for a couple of years.
Thank you for the engine block information. This is most helpful. I will check for numbers, bolt patterns and freeze plug counts. Will get back to you on Saturday. Hopefully my PHS report will be here by then too.
Best Regards.
 

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Shake-N-Bake,
I've been able to confirm that the engine block has (3) freeze plugs and the water pump has 8 bolts. I received my packet of information from PHS on Thursday but was really confused. Build sheet said it was equipped with Turbo-Hydramatic xmission and, that the interior and exterior are blue. In taking a closer look at the VIN number on the packet they sent me, I realized they had transposed a couple of numbers and what was sent was not for my car. I called. PHS apologized for the mistake and said they'd send out the correct information. Looking forward to receiving the correct info.
 

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Hope the GTO convert comes back with a WS in the engine code box of the billing tag. Even a WT or WW in that box would be very positive news.

If the '67 convert was built out of B, G, P assembly plants, feel free & post the letters & numbers on the trim tag.

Nearly 30 years ago, Pete McCarthy followed the lead of an early Nova researcher, & by systematic analysis, published his findings as to what the leters following the group numbers meant on the bottom lines of the trim tag. Several other researchers contributed in the early 90's to further decoding the even more obscure accessory codes. These specific options required a special step in the Fisher Body plant & that's why they are listed on the trim tag. Have a huge stack of trim tag info from '67 Kansas City Pontiac Abodys that I recorded during that time. '67's were everywhere in northern & western TX, OK, KS during that time. 67's were also the most popular year registered for many years by members of GTOAA. Not sure if that is still the case, it seems more '66's have been "coming out of the woodwork" the last few years. Best to you, I've been on pins & needles before waiting on invoice copies from PHS.
 

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Shake-N-Bake,
I've been able to confirm that the engine block has (3) freeze plugs and the water pump has 8 bolts. I received my packet of information from PHS on Thursday but was really confused. Build sheet said it was equipped with Turbo-Hydramatic xmission and, that the interior and exterior are blue. In taking a closer look at the VIN number on the packet they sent me, I realized they had transposed a couple of numbers and what was sent was not for my car. I called. PHS apologized for the mistake and said they'd send out the correct information. Looking forward to receiving the correct info.
Does your balancer look like this or is yours much thicker? IMG_20170318_143250473.jpg

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

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Shake-N-Bake,
Harmonic balancer appears to be wider that the one in your attachment. The pulley mounting seems different from the motor on your engine stand vs. the motor in my car. Attached is a photo.
 

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the '67 & earlier dampers (balancers) are a multi-piece affair using a flange that slides on the keyway of the crank, then a hub along with a thick cord type band, a thin rubber band type insualtor, & the pulley or stack of pulleys that sandwiches all together. There will be 6 small bolts holding everything together. '67 Pontiac V8 pulleys (except the manual strg wp pulley) all use a wider & deeper groove design than '64-66 style pulleys.

On your 3 freeze plug YF coded engine block, a quick easy way to narrow it down without manipulating to get to clean the casting date back by he distributor, is to look at the 6 or 7 digit number above the stamped two letter engine ID code. If this number has a ( in front of 6 numbers, it's a '71-74 model usage block. Hope his helps.
 

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Thanks. I don't recall seeing that symbol. But then again, I wasn't really looking for it either. I'll clean up that area again and check it out.
 

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Shake-N-Bake,
I received the PHS packet today with the correct VIN for my car. This looks a lot better. Info confirms '67 GTO red with red interior and white top equipped with 4sp manual xmission, 4bbl carberator and 'WT' 400ci engine. As I mentioned in earlier post, the original engine was swapped out with the 'YF' at some point in its life. If you are saying that both motors had same dimensions then I don't see any reason to replace this motor with a crate engine. Whereas I intend to take the headers of and use stock exhaust manifolds. The car has 83K miles on it and Richard had the motor rebuild several years ago. I don't imagine there's a lot of miles on it but it definetly needs to be pulled and cosmetically refurbished. I'll have a chance to look at it closer once it's out of the car. I'm pretty sure trying to find a 'WT' block is near impossible. If one could be found, I'm sure it would be very expensive. So... I think I have a plan now. Would welcome any additional comments.
-TempestTamer
 

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WT engines shouldn't be terribly hard to find. That is the base GTO engine from 67 thru 70 with manual trans. Probably the most common of all GTO codes.
However, I agree with your statement that there isn't any reason to get rid of the engine that is currently in your car. We really need the casting number to positively identify what engine you have but the info so far leads me to suspect that you may have a 9786133 block. But really it's just a guess.....the casting number will tell the tale.

If you have a 1967 YF code engine.....then it's a 9786133 block
The original WT engine that came in your car was a 9786133 block
Pretty much all 400 cubic engine engines that Pontiac made for 1967 model year vehicles are 9786133 blocks.
The 2 character engine code is stamped at the engine assembly plant so the assembly line workers can pull the correct engine for whatever car they are working on. In 1967, the difference between a WT and YF block was 10 advertised HP. One had the 067 cam....the other an 066. Different carb as well. One was manual trans and the other was automatic. They probably had different distributors as well....I'd have to check my books and verify.

So, if your block is 9786133 then it's fairly correct for your application. If your wish is to restore the car as correct as possible, then you merely need to install the correct cam and use the original carb (and possibly the distributor) and you should have an engine that is identical to the original WT recipe (except it won't be stamped as WT....)

I have a 9786133 block with 2 character code WZ. It doesn't work for you since it's for a manual transmission Firebird for 1967. However, if I had a 67 GTO and it needed an engine then I would not hesitate to drop the WZ engine in there and call it good. :)

Let us know what the casting number is when you get around to it and we can help you identify what you have with more accuracy.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Shake-N-Bake,
Again, this is all good information. Thank you. I'll check the casting number and report back.
-TempestTamer
 

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TempestTamer, as Greg mentioned '67 WT blocks aren't that hard to find. If you do pursue a '67 WT block, the idea is to find one that was cast in the range that would fit your '67's build. What assembly plant & body build date on this '67? may have further block info, have had quite a few '67 WT & YS blocks over the years, have kept a log of them

On the engine differences between the '67 WT & YF, a complete YF B series engine would have had a Carter 4 bbl intake & press-in stud heads. Either 143's or 061 castings depending on time of year built. The 061's can be built into some really nice street/strip iron heads, have picked up & sold 3 pair. the 061's were the first of the open chamber Pontiac heads, very similar machined chamber to that used in the '70 RAIV head. Hopefully, your engine has original '670 heads, if not & pursuing a restoration, they are out there as well.
 

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Pinion Head,
Thanks for info. Data Plate reads BAL 01D for Assembly Plant and Build Date so that puts it in Baltimore in late January 1967.
So... not only were the cranks a little different between the WT and the YF motors, the heads were different as well? When I go to verify the block casting number, I'll check head castings too. A lot of forensics here but, that's what makes this hobby fun.
Thanks,
 
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