Pontiac GTO Forum banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
We have a 68 GTO that we basically keep garaged. When we start it up, it generally has been sitting for several weeks since the last time we started it. It turns over great because we have a tender on the battery, but to get it to start I need to use starter fluid. If it has started within the last day or so, it will kick in without the fluid. I'm guessing there isn't any fuel left in the carb when it doesn't kick in, and maybe there's no fuel present in the fuel line from the tank if somehow it has drained back into the tank after it sits for a while. Once, it starts though, it runs great, and then it will restart fine? I replaced the fuel pump a couple years ago, but that didn't seem to change anything. Does anyone know what I should look for to fix this? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Mike
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
679 Posts
Do you prime it before cranking ? Have you opened up the carb after it sits for a few weeks and see if the bowls are empty ? If they are empty, then most likely the gas is boiling after you shut the car down (from a few weeks ago). The long cranking is required to bring fuel into the carb and then the engine....

I had a slightly similar yet different situation. My gas boiling over causes the car to be too rich. I hold the gas pedal down ~ 1/3 of the way while cranking and she fires right up.

Good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,788 Posts
We have a 68 GTO that we basically keep garaged. When we start it up, it generally has been sitting for several weeks since the last time we started it. It turns over great because we have a tender on the battery, but to get it to start I need to use starter fluid. If it has started within the last day or so, it will kick in without the fluid. I'm guessing there isn't any fuel left in the carb when it doesn't kick in, and maybe there's no fuel present in the fuel line from the tank if somehow it has drained back into the tank after it sits for a while. Once, it starts though, it runs great, and then it will restart fine? I replaced the fuel pump a couple years ago, but that didn't seem to change anything. Does anyone know what I should look for to fix this? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Mike

As long as you don't have any gasoline smell after you shut it down and it sits awhile, it is the gas evaporating - which is normal with todays blend.

The Q-jets did have a problem on some where the gas would seep/leak from the plugs at the base of the center section (has to be pulled apart to be seen). The fix is to put some gas resistant epoxy on them to seal them up. This is why I mention it.

My '73 Fury won't just fire up when it sits for a couple days. Gas evaporates. Takes a couple of cranking rounds with the starter and pumping the gas to get it fired up. Once running and I stop anywhere, it'll fire right off on first crank. Just the way it is today. :thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for your response cij911. I do prime it before cranking it over. Sometimes, if we have started it say within a week we'll try starting it without the fluid. Sometimes it will start and sometimes not, but if its been sitting for more than a week, I'll need to put in starting fluid. I have not looked into the carb, but thanks so much for the suggestion, Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks PontiacJim. Do you have a recommendation for the gas resistant epoxy you mentioned? I might try that. Thanks for the suggestion! Mike.
 

·
64-67 Expert
Joined
·
8,561 Posts
99% of the time it's evaporation of the fuel, not leaking well plugs. My '67 does this....but I don't prime it. I crank it for a short burst, let it sit a minute, do it again, and it starts. The advantage is it starts WITH oil pressure and oil on the bearings. An engine that sits and is primed to fire right up, fires up dry. The disadvantage to my method is increased wear on the starter and battery. No free lunch here, but you are experiencing a normal condition with today's fuel. You can install a cheap, low pressure pusher electric fuel pump at the tank and use it to 'prime' your system.....it'll fire right up then, and you can leave your mechanical pump right where it is. I've done this on several cars. You only use the electric pump for start up after long rests.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
You don't need to open the carburetor up the check for fuel in the bowls, just take off the air cleaner and open the throttle and look to see if the accelerator pumps squirt fuel into the carb. If it's empty the accelerator pump won't squirt.
As others have said this is extremely common with the fuel today. I have started using ethanol free gas in my old cars and it helps a little bit, but the 442 in particular still takes a few cranks to refill the bowls after a week or two of sitting. QJets and Edelbrocks seem particularly susceptible for some reason.
 

·
64-67 Expert
Joined
·
8,561 Posts
You don't need to open the carburetor up the check for fuel in the bowls, just take off the air cleaner and open the throttle and look to see if the accelerator pumps squirt fuel into the carb. If it's empty the accelerator pump won't squirt.
As others have said this is extremely common with the fuel today. I have started using ethanol free gas in my old cars and it helps a little bit, but the 442 in particular still takes a few cranks to refill the bowls after a week or two of sitting. QJets and Edelbrocks seem particularly susceptible for some reason.
It's the float bowl location and size. The WCFB's on my Corvette same thing. Float bowls right on the intake. The tripower carbs on my '65 hold onto fuel for weeks compared to a few days for my 4bbl and dual 4bbl cars. Holley carbs same thing.....like the Rochester 2-Jet, the float bowl(s) are large, and suspended above the intake, where they remain cooler.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
Agree with all the gang here. First When the car is cold I would remove the air cleaner and look down the carb throttle with a light and with car off work the throttle by hand to see if the accelerator pump puts two decent squirts into the carb.

That should happen if any fuel is left in the bowl and your accelerator pump works. If it squirts put the air cleaner back on, that one minute wait will give the gasoline vapors time to settle over the valves and it should fire right up. Now your choke settings must be right etc.

But the proper method to start a cold engine with full carb bowls would be two or three squirts form the accelerator pump from your foot on the gas pedal with the last pump going all the way down to set the choke, if you can wait 30 seconds or a minute before cranking it should start even easier as you have physics on your side by gas vapors dropping thru the intake over the valves. Gas vapors are heavier that air.

Now like Geetee said if no fuel is in the bowls, then you have to get some in there, by cranking or working to eliminate the evaporation of the gas with phenolic spacers under carb, radiant heat shields or fans etc.

First see if you get a squirt after it sits a week,..then go from there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
194 Posts
Appreciate all the information from this post. My 66 GTO try power has some similar issues. I’ve never thought about letting it sit for 30 to 60 seconds before trying to start it. What you said makes sense about the vapors getting into the combustion chamber and valves. The next time my car sits for more than three days I will give it a try. Usually if I drive the car every 3 to 5 days it starts pretty much normally. Any longer I do experience the cranking and pumping the gas pedal before it starts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
:nerd::nerd::nerd:We have to let physics work for us. If you were to pour a gallon of gasoline on the floor of your garage, the fumes will fill every corner hugging the floor about six to twelve inches high.....before it starts to rise, it is heavier than air.

That is why the building code mandates that your hot water heater in the garage sits up on a couple of cinder blocks or other platform.

That is so the “gas pilot light” will not immediately ignite spilled gasoline fumes....it is a measure of safety. Enough gasoline though and it will eventually rise up.....

So just use the physics for yourself, the valves are in the lower part of the intake compared to where the throttle plates get the squirted gas from the accelerator pump squirted.

When you crank immediately, guess what your valves are sucking in air, air won’t ignite.

Now a couple of strong squirts and great choke setting and good plugs and two or three squirts may fire off immediately.

But we are all spoiled by fuel injection, a few seconds of patience sometimes works wonders.

Just get in the cold car, and very first thing two quick half pedals and one final to the floor pump to set the choke.

Now get your sunglasses, fix your music, get out your garage door opener, put your hat in the back seat, roll down the windows and release the parking brake......or some similar combination of events,....and then crank it.

Even just a small amount of gasoline in the bowls should give enough for a couple of squirts......

Give it a try and see.....
 

·
64-67 Expert
Joined
·
8,561 Posts
:nerd::nerd::nerd:We have to let physics work for us. If you were to pour a gallon of gasoline on the floor of your garage, the fumes will fill every corner hugging the floor about six to twelve inches high.....before it starts to rise, it is heavier than air.

That is why the building code mandates that your hot water heater in the garage sits up on a couple of cinder blocks or other platform.

That is so the “gas pilot light” will not immediately ignite spilled gasoline fumes....it is a measure of safety. Enough gasoline though and it will eventually rise up.....

So just use the physics for yourself, the valves are in the lower part of the intake compared to where the throttle plates get the squirted gas from the accelerator pump squirted.

When you crank immediately, guess what your valves are sucking in air, air won’t ignite.

Now a couple of strong squirts and great choke setting and good plugs and two or three squirts may fire off immediately.

But we are all spoiled by fuel injection, a few seconds of patience sometimes works wonders.

Just get in the cold car, and very first thing two quick half pedals and one final to the floor pump to set the choke.

Now get your sunglasses, fix your music, get out your garage door opener, put your hat in the back seat, roll down the windows and release the parking brake......or some similar combination of events,....and then crank it.

Even just a small amount of gasoline in the bowls should give enough for a couple of squirts......

Give it a try and see.....
Excellent advice! And I agree 100%.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top