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Discussion Starter #1
I found a '69 carousel red/black Judge for sale. It has the original drivetrain, 12-bolt rear, hideaways, PS and PB. It is missing all the ram-air parts, has minimal rust-no holes, but needs a bunch of bodywork. To be finished correctly, it needs a full interior kit, both bumpers, a hood and the ram-air bits. Is this car worth fixing, and if so, care to guess what it should sell for? The owner is planning to get it appraised soon, but I would like to make him an offer before then. I have photos.
 

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Really need to see photo's. If you plan a full factory restore it's gonna cost. How much total investment are you willing to do?
 

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What is the asking price? My opinion is: put into it as much as your budget allows. You will most probably never get out of it price wise, what you put into it. Sell it for as much as you can regardless what anyone tells you.

If you ask Barrett Jackson prices like so many people do, you may be disappointed. Don't lose your head pricing it.

I want one in the worse way but will not pay what most are asking... If it were me..... I'd fix it up... get the body as perfect as you can with paint and markings etc. Have paperwork that shows it's a Judge.... make it run-able with everything in working order... Make the interior as close to perfect as possible and then market it. You should make out pretty good. If you put a fortune into it you may never get a fortune for it.

This is just my opinion, I'd market it for the price most can afford not shooting for the stars with every bolt replaced, unless of course price is no object. Show some Pics!!
 

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Here is a copy and paste from www.traderonline.com for 1969 GTO judges. Clones are going in the $20K range and numbers matching Judges are going for as high as $125K.


1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE) $84,900
1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE), Original Georgia Ram air 3, numbers matching February build, rust free, now features the awesome Ram Air 4, 4 speed 430 rear, protecto plate, frame off restoration. Nothing but the best, all original sheet metal. Would be Saturday car at Barrett Jackson Auction. 'YOU BE… Phone: (610) 583-3172

Placed: 21-JUL-06 EMAIL SELLERMORE DETAILS


SAVE VEHICLE 1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE) $104,900
1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE), 1969 GTO Judge History: : In 1968, the GTO received a totally redesigned body which was carried over into 1969. However, early in the 1969 model year Pontiac introduced the GTO Judge. Although originally conceived to be a budget musclecar to compete with Plymouth's Road… Phone: (770) 956-1227

Placed: 24-JUL-06 EMAIL SELLERMORE DETAILSVISIT ONLINE INVENTORY



SAVE VEHICLE 1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE) $70,000
1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE), Very nice Judge Clone on a real GTO. Full functionaly Ram Air. Factory cast iron headers. A/C. Engine correct except block has been changed. Front disc brakes. Clock and gauge package. Passenger reclining seats. Power Anntena. Hide away headlights. Hood tach. 800 miles … Phone: (618) 271-3000

Placed: 17-JUL-06 EMAIL SELLERMORE DETAILSMORE PHOTOSVISIT ONLINE INVENTORY


SAVE VEHICLE 1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE) $124,900
1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE), THIS BEAUTIFUL CAROUSEL RED 1969 PONTIAC GTO JUDGE IS THE REAL DEAL WITH ORIGINAL NUMBERS MATCHING, RAM AIR III ENGINE HOOKED UP TO THE ORIGINAL 4-SPEED TRANSMISSION AND T-HANDLE HURST SHIFTER! THIS CAR ALSO HAS POWER STEERING, POWER DISC BRAKES, 3.55 SAFE-T-TRACK REAR … Phone: (713) 334-1400

Placed: 13-JUL-06 EMAIL SELLERMORE DETAILSVISIT ONLINE INVENTORY


SAVE VEHICLE 1969 PONTIAC GTO $29,900
1969 PONTIAC GTO, NUMBERS MATCHING GTO, 400CI/390 HP, REGISTERED AT PHS, RECENT PAINT W/ JUDGE PAINT JOB and STICKERS, 3.90 POSI TRAC, TH400 REBUILT W/SHIFT KIT TRANS, 2800 STALL, RAM AIR III HEADS, AC, HIDE-A-WAY HEADLIGHTS, PS/PB, (FRONT POWER DISC BRAKES), HOOKER HEADERS, FLOWMASTER 60 SERIES EXH… Phone: (708) 691-9903

Placed: 17-JUL-06 EMAIL SELLERMORE DETAILS


SAVE VEHICLE 1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE) $20,500
1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE), 1969 Pontiac GTO, Judge clone, Hugger Orange, black interior, 400 V8, 350 hp, TH400 Auto, 3:23 10 bolt posi, PS, PDB, cold A/C, Pioneer AM/FM CD, factory Rallye wheels with Firestone Firehawk radials, Factory Tach in dash. Ready to cruise Phone: (724) 925-6595

Placed: 12-JUL-06 EMAIL SELLERMORE DETAILSVISIT ONLINE INVENTORY


SAVE VEHICLE 1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE) $26,995
1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE), 69 Pontiac GTO w/judge decals- matching 400 engine- auto.- PS.- PDB.- working factory AC.- A M. FM. CD. radio-working hood tack- nice paint and interior- new wheels and tires- runs and drives great. Phone: (913) 294-5779

Placed: 05-JUL-06 EMAIL SELLERMORE DETAILSMORE PHOTOSVISIT ONLINE INVENTORY


SAVE VEHICLE 1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE) $79,900
1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE), This is The Judge THE REAL THING!!!!! The engine is a 69 WS code with a four speed, power steering, hood tack, Courousel Red, saf-t-track, remote mirrors, PB radio and much more. This is and original PHS Documented GTO JUDGE that has just been restored to look like it s… Phone: (856) 309-8808

Placed: 10-JUL-06 EMAIL SELLERMORE DETAILSMORE PHOTOSVISIT ONLINE INVENTORY


SAVE VEHICLE 1969 PONTIAC GTO $59,900
1969 PONTIAC GTO, 1969 PONTIAC GTO, THE JUDGE. THIS CAR HAS PHS DOCUMENTATION. POWERED BY A 400 CU IN, 3 SPEED HURST SHIFTER, FUNCTIONAL RAM AIR HOOD, HOOD TACH, PS, PDB, BUCKETS, CONSOLE, FACTORY RADIO, AND REAR SPOILER. EXTERIOR IS IN CAROUSEL RED WITH CORRECT PARCHMENT INTERIOR AND BOLD JUDGE … Phone: (727) 461-4900

Placed: 26-JUL-06 EMAIL SELLERMORE DETAILSMORE PHOTOSVISIT ONLINE INVENTORY


SAVE VEHICLE 1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE) $64,900
1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE), Carousel Red w/Black interior, Ram Air III, 4-spd. Stunning, restored, matching numbers Judge in the best color optioned with p/b, p/s, am/fm radio, tilt wheel and documented with paperwork from the factory and P.H.S. As low as $678.46 per month O.A.C. Phone: (714) 630-0700

Placed: 28-JUL-06 EMAIL SELLERMORE DETAILSMORE PHOTOSVISIT ONLINE INVENTORY



SAVE VEHICLE 1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE) $29,900
1969 PONTIAC GTO (THE JUDGE), VEHICLE ID: 264, THIS ISN'T A JUDGE BUT YOU CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE A 400 ENGINE WITH TURBO 400 TRANS LOOKS AND RUNS GREAT POWER STEERING, DISC BRAKES AND TOP GREAT PAINT NEW TOP AND INTERIOR FRONT BUMPER SHOWES SOME CRACKING THE REST OF THE CAR LOOKS GREAT IN AND OU… Phone: (856) 309-8808

Placed: 10-JUL-06 EMAIL SELLERMORE DETAILSMORE PHOTOSVISIT ONLINE INVENTORY


SAVE VEHICLE 1969 PONTIAC GTO $14,000
1969 PONTIAC GTO, v8, auto, p/windows, carousel red, judge spoiler, mag wheels, overdrive transmission, front disc brakes, 3.90 posi rear. great driver! , $14, 000 or best offer, 973-479-0617, SUCCASUNNA Phone: (973) 479-0617

Placed: 25-JUL-06 MORE DETAILS


SAVE VEHICLE 1969 PONTIAC GTO $27,000
1969 PONTIAC GTO, Carousal red, 400 auto, his/ hers shift, rallys, frame off resto, Judge package, Ramair, too much to list, comp redone, $27, 000, 248-634-3490, 248-895-5771 Holly, MI Phone: (248) 634-3490

Placed: 28-JUL-06 MORE DETAILS

SAVE VEHICLE 1969 PONTIAC GTO $29,900
1969 PONTIAC GTO, numbers matching, 400ci/390 hp, registered at PHS, recent paint w/Judge paint job & stickers, 3.90 posi trac, TH400 rebuilt w/shift kit trans., 2800 Stall, Ram Air III heads, ac, hide-a-way headlights, power steering, power brakes, front p/disc brakes, Hooker headers, Flowmaster 60… Phone: (708) 448-8922

Placed: 16-JUL-06 MORE DETAILS


SAVE VEHICLE 1969 PONTIAC GTO $47,000
1969 PONTIAC GTO, JUDGE, 400 cu. in., rebuilt 4-speed, lots of documentation, rare liberty blue original paint, original interior, excellent original $47, 000 or best offer 847-683-1302 Phone: (847) 683-1302
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I could probably buy the car for between $10K and $15K, but it would need $20K in parts and repairs to get in a decent condition. I can't do the bodywork and paint, and that's about half the cost. I could take the car to a restorer, pay a small fortune to have all the work done and have a beautiful car worth $60 grand, but I would probably have $50K in it. I wouldn't buy the car for an investment-real estate is better, but for $25K I could buy a very nice '66-'70 ready to drive. I'll get some pictures up tonight.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I have both the VIN and data plate numbers in hand. I will probably get PHS docs for the car, but the owner, who is a friend of a friend, not a total stranger, says he has a build sheet and other paperwork for the car.
 

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Okay, buy the car at 15Gs or so. Look at OPG. They have done pretty good fro me. One problem they sent me two right side door weatherstrips in the package instead of one for each side, and it does take a little time to get stuff to az. Here's a list of stuff to do, and apprx. prices, most rounded up.
Hotchkis total vehicle handling package $1400

Interior stage 3, $1332.
Have someone put it all together, another $1000. Console, another $200. That dash looks awesome!!! Well compared to mine, water dripped through the missing front glass of my 69 for a decade, the foam warped and split down to metal over the gauges. That looks like it just needs light refurbish. Put the console in yourself, I did and it was an easy perfect fit. I also did all the interior upholstery, carpet and door panels except for the headliner and the sail panels. But all that was really time consuming. It looks perfect, how I want it, but it was a difficult process.

Engine rebuild $3500 at a shop for a performance rebuild. Less for refurbishing and using all original parts.
Usually, most of the rear end components are still in great condition, so probably won’t need much attention.
Ram Air components $2800. Fairly simple installations.

Body and paint 5000. New underside paint 1000. New decals, 300

New grills, $300. The old plastic tends to become brittle and break.

Hood $500.

Might need a Rear window- trunk steel panel, $80. Also, look in the trunk for rust damage. When you open the trunk, look up at the steel panel under the rear window panel just above the trunk hindges, it will probably have rusted through, if not you have found an easily restorable car. This is usually rusted all the way through in places, compromising the integrity of the entire rear of the car. You can’t even let the weight of the trunk close from half open, because, in some cases, will snap that piece and fold the fenders in with it. :eek: :willy: I saw it happen at a junkyard to a 69 that needed to be put to rest. The idiot owner of the junkyard slammed the trunk down.

The hidaway headlights might be a really tough job because only some of the parts are reproduced. If you are missing some of the parts you may have to go to the ends of the earth to get them.

Both of those bumpers look like they can be restored by any halfway skilled body tech. The rear bumper will probably have to be rechromed though. I don't know the price of this, but maybe a few hundred?

That’s about $18,500 rounded up

For a total rebuild and cost of the car 33G low and a 40G high.

Sell for about 60, and get 20+G’s out of it. But that is without any major surprises.

Just my input. Good luck!!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for your input. The engine code is WS. It is supposed to be the original engine, rebuilt 10 or so years ago, with less than 1000 miles on it. The owner stopped driving it because the carb leaks.
 

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Sweet. That's 366hp 400 ram air III correct w/manual tranny, 10.75compression ratio #744 cam and #48 heads. Can be a real nasty motor when restored. That 366hp was more like 390-400 w/445tq.:party:
 
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