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What I'm looking for is for some advice. I found two GTO's, a 68 and a 70. Both have to be full restore, both are one owner (I know the cars since new and the owners), both have manual shifting. The 70 have more options Ram Air/AC, electric windows, hood tach, etc. Which would be a better buy?? I have docens of photos of the 2 cars
 

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Sweet, how much is he asking?

I like 68 better but the ram air and options (if original) would be sweet. Get the vins and do some research. Also maybe some up close inspections of the sheet metal to see what kind of shape they are in...
 

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Why not both
:cheers EXACTLY I say BOTH!

And if not, I would love the other one, so call me and I will take the left overs.

(Ram Air cars are VERY desirable) I am not sure you should pass that up. If it's factory Ram Air III it's got to be that one. But get the PHS docs on it first.
 

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I'm not as knowledgeable as most on here, so correct me if I'm wrong.
What appears to me is the 68 has an ordinary air filter but a ram air exhaust manifold. And the 70 has a ram air filter base plate but no ram air manifold.
 

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It comes down to personal preference. I'd take the '68. If you like the '70 better, take it.
 

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The '70 does indeed have the HO or Ram Air exhaust manifolds. The '68 looks to be an HO car...at least the battery cable location looks right for an HO. I like the '68 a bit better than the '70, but both are great years. That said, I'd get the '70, as it looks to be a factory ram air car, and that will make the car a much better investment at the end of the restoration. Agreed, you need to get PHS on both vehicles to make a sound decision. Great finds!!
 

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I'm not as knowledgeable as most on here, so correct me if I'm wrong.
What appears to me is the 68 has an ordinary air filter but a ram air exhaust manifold. And the 70 has a ram air filter base plate but no ram air manifold.
Looking closely at the photos, I'm seeing just the opposite. The 68 has normal "log" style exhaust manifilds but the 70 has the correct Ram Air exhaust manifolds. I'd want to check all the numbers, but just from the photos there's a good chance that 70 is a complete Ram Air III car. If both are in "more or less" the same condition and need similar work, that would make the 70 the more valuable car as far as collectibility. If you don't care about that, then pick whichever one you like the most. (And tell the rest of us where the other one is! :D )

Where are they, and how much do you think you can buy them for?

Bear
 

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Discussion Starter #9
advice; 68 or 70 GTO

Thank you guys for your replys. I will tell you more. I know the owners since we were kids (18-20 years) and knew the cars since new. The 68 was bought when the actual and only owner bought it going to college at a dealer in Texas. it was ready at the parking lot and is a normal version, not a Ram Air. I thought that the 68 being a Car of the Year would be a more desairable car and has a more "sporty" look. The 70 model was ordered by my friend directly through GM, with Ram Air (III or IV? have to ask) with every thing except Power Steering in exchange of certain kind of progresive steering ???? but is one (actual) owner with 43k miles. Original blue with kind of white interior. Actually is abandoned exposed at sun and rain. I can buy both cars, but which ???? I'll include more photos of the two cars. Thank you
 

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I'd go for the 70.
Ram Air, A/C (I didn't think you could get A/C with Ram Air???), 4 speed, 8 track, power windows..WOW!
Looks like Palomino Copper with a white vinyl top and Sandalwood interior.
Killer combo!
 

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I like the 68 but man, that 70 GTO would be my choice (if it was mine to make and I had to choose) derelict cars are like lost puppy's to me, I just want to take em all home :lol:.

Incredible oportunity for you here and the 70 would be the winner to me with it looking to be in better shape and the very desirable option list.

As always, more pics and details! :cheers
 

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How can I distinguish between a Ram Air III and a IV ? Differences??
Engine block, and numbers. Typically from originality, R/A III has one heat riser on the driver side. R/A IV had heat risers on both sides. This is a mute point from this car but from numbers matching stand point it isn't. Often times they are removed but to be precise that is one distinction on a properly done engine. To be absolutely sure, the VIN will tell all. PHS is your best friend.
 

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How can I distinguish between a Ram Air III and a IV ? Differences??
For a quick check, look at the engine code, 2 letters, on the front of the engine below the passenger head. As Judge stated, PHS will tell the full story of all the options....


For '70 blocks('69 too)

Ram III
WS - manual
YZ - auto

Ram IV
WW - manual
XP - auto
 

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It's going to be a RA III car - RA IV wasn't available with A/C, I'm pretty sure.

Also, RA IV has an aluminum intake with a separate cast iron crossover under the carb, RA III intake is all cast iron and one piece (even though the "inner" bolt holes on the intake flange next to the carb are probably "split" - don't let that fool you.
Also, as others have said. RA IV is going to have those "heat stove" connections for the flexible tubing to the lower ram air pan from the center of the exhaust manifolds on both sides, RA III has it on the drivers side only.

EDIT: I just looked at your engine photo again and I see that the heat stove shroud is missing from the drivers side. That's ok --- here's another way to tell. Look on the underside of the lower ram air pan, where the "ears" sort of stick out on both sides. A RA III pan is going to have a hole there (about 1.5"-2" in diameter) and a lip where that flex hose connects to, but it's only going to have hole that on the drivers side. The passenger side underneath the pan on that "ear" is going to be just flat, closed with no hole. If the passenger side has the same opening and provision for connecting a flex hose, then it's a RA IV pan.

Anyway - so you've got in all likelihood, an original numbers-matching "garden variety" "car of the year" 68 (with hideaway headlights no less), and an original numbers-matching RA-III 70 (complete with all the RA parts) - apprently a 4 speed. No contest. The 70 is -by far- the more valuable and desirable car. The only things that could make the 70 more valuable would be if it were a RA IV car, and a convertible ---- that would put its value restored well into 6 figures.

They're BOTH worthy of saving, but if you can truly only do one - I'd go with the 70.

Here's a photo of what a Ram Air III ram air system looks like. Notice there's a "heat stove" flex hose is only on the drivers side, there's a metal 'breather tube' from the passenger side valve cover to the back of the pan, and the intake manifold is all cast iron.


Here's another view of a RA III pan


...and a RA IV pan


See the difference?

Bear
 

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Discussion Starter #18
advice: 68 or 70...

I'd go for the 70.
Ram Air, A/C (I didn't think you could get A/C with Ram Air???), 4 speed, 8 track, power windows..WOW!
Looks like Palomino Copper with a white vinyl top and Sandalwood interior.
Killer combo!
Hi, JMT455, It seems like that you like this finding of my "treasure hunting".. well I found out that this GTO came originally from factory with V.O.E (vacuum operated exhaust) !!! how about that ??? :lol:
 

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Hi, JMT455, It seems like that you like this finding of my "treasure hunting".. well I found out that this GTO came originally from factory with V.O.E (vacuum operated exhaust) !!! how about that ??? :lol:
The only VOE factory I am aware of was the Humbler. Only 233 were produced before Pontiac pulled the plug. Does your PHS corroborate this?
 
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