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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Time for another good debate. I know b_a_betterperson will love this one.

I attended a conference at the Waldorf Astoria on Park Avenue in NYC this morning. KPMG (accounting & consulting firm) was running a global sourcing seminar directed at C-Level executives. There were about 60 CEO’s, CFO’s, CIO’s from around the world.

A panel of 5 speakers led the discussion
  • Industry Trends - KPMG consulting, Managing Partner from Australia
  • Corp Perspective - Chief Strategic Sourcing Officer for Guardian Insurance
  • Corp Perspective - VP of global shared services for Pfizer Pharmaceuticals
  • Tax – KPMG managing partner in their NY tax practice
  • Technology – VP from Gartner Group (Technology think tank)
The discussion was mainly focused on outsourced services (i.e. call centers) but one thing that occurred to me as I sat there listening to the speakers is that there is a whole, fairly mature industry, built up around outsourcing. Consultants for negotiating your contracts, India experts, China experts, technology experts to make it all work, tax consultants to handle transfer pricing across national borders, consultants to teach your people how to move an operation, or find the right partner to outsource with, and on and on.......

My point is that if you're holding on to the archaic belief that you can "Bah Merican" you are sorely out of touch with reality. The auto industry may not be there yet but it is coming. National borders are irrelevant to the business world right now.

U.S. companies are outsourcing to India. Indian companies are in turn re-sourcing the work to Vietnam (coming on strong) and China. As I said, we were focused on services but, it could just as easily be manufacturing, or as the VP from Pfizer indicated, even intellectual property creation is being outsourced in the form of pharmaceutical research in India.

It's not gaining momentum, it's there. Companies know how to do it and there is a huge support apparatus in place. In 10 years it will be impossible to tell what the "U.S. content" of goods and services are or where the profits are ultimately going.

I for one think this is a good thing for the world at large. Others may disagree. Regardless, you are sadly deluding yourself if you think you can do anything to stop it by suporting locally produced goods.

So, go buy that Korean produced Porsche with the Mexican engine and Indian transmission. And drive it proudly!
 

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or the Japanese 350z designed by an Indian guy with the french power plant and built in America :D ( at least I think all of that is correct, :lol: )
 

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or the Japanese 350z designed by an Indian guy with the french power plant and built in America :D ( at least I think all of that is correct, :lol: )
I don't know where you got your facts from, but the 350Z wasn't designed by "some Indian guy". And it isn't built in America either. And if by french power plant, you're referring to the engine, then no, that would make all of your statements incorrect, lol.
 

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China produces goods and sells them to America. (Well, Walmart to be exact) Then takes the money WE gave them to build a military to compete with us. Would this make all Walmart consumers Communist supporters?
 

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China produces goods and sells them to America. (Well, Walmart to be exact) Then takes the money WE gave them to build a military to compete with us. Would this make all Walmart consumers Communist supporters?
Good Question? That's why I shop at Target (eventhough they don't support our troops)
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
China produces goods and sells them to America. (Well, Walmart to be exact) Then takes the money WE gave them to build a military to compete with us. Would this make all Walmart consumers Communist supporters?
Absolutely! And the Chinese people are all capitalist wannabe's. They're out there consuming their little hearts out......TV's, PC's, Cars, Coca Cola, Music, Cosmetics, Clothing. The emerging middle class wants electricity in their government apartment. Companies like GE and Siemens are selling power generation and distribution equipment. They want (need) communications networks and transportation systems and ports and construction equipment and energy.

The Chinese government is no longer in control of the evolution of their economy. There's no putting the dragon back in the bottle. In 10 years they will have morphed into something much more open and without a single shot fired in anger.

This has gotta be better than wars.

I can't wait to see the Dragon 3500 coupe with Feng Shui interior.
 

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Hate to admit it, but I've really changed my tune on this over the past couple of years -- particularly in the last few months.

For two years, I tried to get a line of furniture I designed made in the United States. Between the companies that signed my NDA, looked at the plans and never followed up; the companies that didn't provide three-quarters of the information I asked for in their response -- and the companies that flat out blew me off by pulling the biggest possible number they could think of out of their ass -- I absolutely, positively could not make domestic production happen.

I went to Mexico and wasted a year with those guys. Less expensive, even though I wasn't shopping price, but, geez Louise, those guys were impossible to manage. Didn't want to issue production schedules -- then blew the dates when they did. A nightmare.

Now, I'm sorry to say, I'm dealing with the Chinese. These guys work really hard, are service oriented, and deliver very good pricing. Yes, they have zero environmental laws. Yes, they treat their people like crap. But, yes, from my perspective -- that they pay attention to detail and are OK to do business with. And I happy about this? Hell, no. Do I sleep well at night? Yes -- because I had no choice whatsoever in order to survive.

I used to think that the CEOs that canned all their American workers and sent their jobs overseas were greedy a-holes. After being in their shoes for a while, I now see they, too had no choice. Americans just flat out DO NOT CARE where something is made -- as long as the price is right. GM could start selling cars made in North Korea or Iran tomorrow -- and if they were equal to a Toyota and a few thousand less -- they'd sell, no question.

Have I completely sold out? Nope. When possible, I try to purchase products marketed by companies headquartered in the United States. That's why I bought a GTO.

By the way, you know who's buying all the bonds issued by the U.S. Government to pay off our national deficit? The Chinese. And you know what they do with the interest we pay them for buying those bonds? Pay off farmers and manufacturers so they can sell their stuff for even less than it costs to produce. That's why you wind up with poison Chinese wheat gluten in American pet food -- when everything between the Mississippi River and the Rockies is wheat in the United States.

Right now, I'm in the middle class -- well on my way to the working class if I'm not careful. The working class? They're now the working poor. And if you're in the middle or working class -- you're in the same boat. What to do? Start your own company, work like hell, and stick every nickel you possibly can in the bank so you can build real wealth for yourself.
 

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IMO, a big reason for American production downfall is unions. A few years ago a union papermill in Georgetown SC was about to close. Management asked it's employees if they (along with it's CEO) could take a pay cut for just 3 months to get the plant back on it's feet. It's union REFUSED. A week after their refusal the plant had to close. This is union thinking at it's best. Now take a place like NUCOR STEEL. They despise unions. Their plants are run by a pay for performance plan. They have the absolute least amount of employees hired to run their mills, and pay them a ****load of money to do it. No lazyness there.
 

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I would agree with you on unions but also paying CEOs unbelieveable amounts of money so they can bankrupt the company...run it down and leave with a golden parachute...ask its members to take a paycut while adding to their bank accounts are also killing us...many of us want the lowest price NO MATTER WHAT...without regard for the consequences...if we had more pride in the American product perhaps we could keep American jobs...interesting to note that NO ONE questioned me buying my 2002 Chevrolet Avalanche (made in Mexico) but I got all sorts of grief buying a Mazda 6 (made in Dearborn Michigan)...my first "foreign" car...and what about our GTOs??? Made in Australia???...confusing???
Bill
 

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Good Question? That's why I shop at Target (eventhough they don't support our troops)
I will NEVER step foot in a Target... When they built one in my area, a documentary was done on them.....

One reason I will not shop there... Target supports GAY rights, contributing money to their "Cause" whatever that means....My thought on that cause is.... If a company gives money to Gay rights that means they are funding the right in laws for them to perform anal sex etc. I am not going to shop at a place where some of my money goes to a group that engages in immoral acts....

TARGET will NOT let our Military soldiers stand outside their store at Christmas time and collect for Toys for Tots. From the article that was presented in the local newspaper they do not want to get involved with that. The salvation Army had to fight to allow them to collect there. Target bowed to local pressure and finally allowed the Salvation Army to collect.

There was a big stink about this in the news and Target stands by their decision NOT to support that cause...

So..... Target, will donate money to Gay rights and is proud to do so, But when it comes to needy children they turn their back on them?

Not with my money.
 

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THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL response......

Our government encourages companies to set up shop outside of the borders. Then they want to cry foul when companies do so. Case in point. Hershey foods. Hershey has been a mainstay in my area for a long long time. They have a park there that makes ZILLIONS a year. People come from all over the world to be gouged there. Hershey threatened to close both chocolate factories and move most of the production to a plant in Mexico and is currently getting ready to build a plant in Monterey Mexico. To save jobs the union made concessions. Naturally, blaming a union is the norm and it's the workers fault they want a fair share of the pie...

Hershey has agreed to leave the plants alone for now. However they cut like 200 jobs in Hershey and is building a plant in Mexico and moving production there. If the illegals can't come here to work, by GOD companies will take the jobs to them, after all the government encourages it. After a renegotiated contract Hershey announces a 5% increase in candy bars etc....

Hershey is as filthy rich as filthy rich can be. Companies have a right to make as much as they can and who can blame them, well except the oil companies.
Their greed will continue in Mexico where cheap labor flourishes.

Until the government penalizes companies for taking our jobs out of the country, and tightens their belts to protect our best interest this will happen like always, and continue to happen. All the preaching in the world and concessions by workers will not deter greed and gluttony in a company when they are encouraged to take jobs outside the U.S.

Ya can't blame companies for moving out of the country where laws are set up that encourages them to do so.
 

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I don't know where you got your facts from, but the 350Z wasn't designed by "some Indian guy". And it isn't built in America either. And if by french power plant, you're referring to the engine, then no, that would make all of your statements incorrect, lol.
I got my facts from a guy who owns one. so let me get back to you on that. but for now...... d'oh!
 

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:eek: How do we spell: "GLOBAL?" The economics of the USA are so wrapped up in global issues there is almost no such thing as USA economics. WE might as well get used to it and realize that the American worker is no longer competing with other American workers, but the Indian worker, the Chinese worker, etc. Cost of living and gross national product are more fuzzy than ever. Unemployment stats just don't mean the same. Everyone wants to play with numbers to mean what they want. Dow Jones? NASDAC? Lets talk about the Yen, Pound, Mark, global. One world union. Christians unite! lol
 

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:eek: Christians unite! lol
We as Christians are too passive. Turn the other cheek is the "slogan" we are taught to live by. Others on the other hand are aggressive, forcing their beliefs and ideology down your throat. The meek and meager don't have a chance.

When workers unite, it is called unionization. TABOO...shhhhhhh don't say it too loud if the boss finds out you'll be fired. I don't wanna union I'll have to pay dues, and uh, they only protect deadbeat workers but what do we do? Bend over. So ya wanna unionize do ya??? We'll learn you a thing or two. But boss, all we want is our "fair share." Ya do, do ya?? I WILL TELL YOU what your fair share is... If you don't like it, Jose in Mexico will gladly take your job. He'll do it for pennies on the dollar.....<perk> I think I will call the CEO and put a bug in his ear.....
maybe I'll get a raise....

Dear Worker: Thank you so much for your years of service, but do to re-structuring, and costs, and fuel, and electric costs, and natural gas costs, taxes, health care, insurances..... yada yada yada, we have decided to move to Mexico.

Now what were you saying about your fair share?? Oh by the way, you are welcome to relocate to Mexico, at your cost. Please be advised your salary will be reduced 95% and you will not have health care coverage, nor will you have holiday pay and no longer will you have an employer sponsored 401K either but at least you will have a job. If you are interested please see the H.R. manager for your English to Spanish DICKEDionaries.

<sigh> I knew I never shoulda asked for a fair share.


Thanks for the memories.
 

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2006.5 Silver Alloy 6MT Coupe- me too:cool


It's okay, though. I'm not sure if the designer was Japanese, however.
Okay. French Power plant: the engine was designed by Renault ( maybe just the configuration and not the actual creation of the original engine ).
Indian designer: One of the designers of the external body was an Indian guy working in a California company ( which goes with the american association as well )
Japanese car: (I think we can all safely assume that one :D ) and produced in Japan.

I was originally just making a grossly exaggerated statement to be funny. :eek:
 
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