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07-26-2020, 02:35 PM
BLACK 67 GOAT's AvatarBLACK 67 GOAT
BLACK 67 GOAT is online now

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1967 GTO 400 H.O. For sale. $17,500.
1967 Pontiac GTO H.O. 360 HP Automatic. 1 of only 13,827 produced with the H.O. engine. PHS documented ALL NUMBERS MATCH DRIVETRAIN . 26k actual miles as documented on clean and clear PA. Title in my name. Needs restoration. Will need rust repair. Fenders, doors and quarters are solid. Engine runs really good, trans shifts good and 3.55 posi works like it should. Runs, drives and stops. Great candidate for a frame off restoration. Signet gold with black Cordova top and gold interior. Call or text Me for more pictures or if you have any questions. 570-498-0756
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I posted the 67 H.O. over on PY that PJ is referring to. Here is the exact copy of my add from over on PY. I have never mislead (PULL ONE OVER ON) anyone in my life nor was i trying to with this add as PJ suggests! I clearly state WILL NEED RUST REPAIR! I NEVER said the floors were solid! I posted one picture so people could get a general idea of what the car is. I clearly stated to call or text for more info or more pictures. It's much easier to text or email a butt load of pictures than to post to a site. The problem is most people don't read the add which PJ obviously didn't or he wouldn't have said the floors were solid which I never said. The car is posted on FB marketplace as well with 20 detailed pictures of frame, floors etc. and I still get people that think they can get in and drive this car for a daily driver because they don't read the add or really look at the pictures. That is why I prefer someone call me so I can describe the car in detail and answer any questions one might have. I have sold a lot of cars and the buyers never had any surprises. I don't have a problem with someone thinking I'm asking too much, that's why it's an asking price. However I do have a problem with someone suggesting that I'm dishonest.
 

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"Needs restoration. Will need rust repair. Runs, drives and stops." Are probly the parts that he has issue with. Massive hole in frame, could not put on a lift cause there is not enough frame there.
Runs drives and free cross on the side of the road.

Dude that is structural you have people talking about driving that.as is and you say nothing.
 

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I looked at the pictures and I read the ad. I dont see any mis alignmnet with the truth here. A picture is worth a thousand words.
Anyone with common sense would not drive the car with a frame like that, which is clearly visible in the photos. Additional photos were offered upon a simple request.
I dont see the problem with the ad . Just my .02 C

I am not taking sides here so dont think I am in favor of anyone more or less, but the facts are the facts, so there is that.
If I was buying the car, I would opt to look at it in person, and I have already made up my mind a new frame is in the works. Not a huge deal for me (some maybe)
I have access to a huge shop and all the tools to do the job.
 

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Now, that being said, I also think that the moderators response was over zealous and rude. A simple "read the guidelines" warning would have sufficed.I feel PJ was a victim.

I like PJ. I must say, he is a wealth of knowledge and seems like a level headed Guy.

Most of you may know me from Hotrodders.com as I am a moderator over there.... surprise....

Like I said, read the guidelines would have been the larger part of my post in response to the problem.Certainly not ban worthy.
 

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Facts only change when circumstances change. The car is still rusty.That wont change, at least not overnight.
 

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Sure. I wont disagree. Re read my last few posts. Like I said , not a ban worthy offense. I think the Mod was a bit thin skinned as well.

Re read it. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 

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I just had to post this in the General discussion for all to see. Yep, banned as you can see from the message sent me from the PY Nazi Moderator named Stuart. LOL

Little bit of a clique over at PY and heaven forbid you speak your mind or get sarcastic with any of the "good ole boys" and ruffle their feathers. Don't even think about questioning any of their technical responses by one of the guru's, as you might think you were questioning God himself. At best, if they find you annoying, but you aren't challenging their authority,.........they simply ignore you as there are two member on there who used to frequent here that they always ignore.

The moderator Stuart is a self proclaimed judge of what is acceptable in a reply and what is not based on........ well, I have not figured that one out. I've seen some heated words that he seems to let slide, but assume they are a member of "the club." Now mind you, I don't get into name calling, or slinging vicious daggers at members. I got in trouble with Stuart because you are not supposed to add any comments to any person selling a car/item. Well, that's hard for me to do when you post pictures of a piece of poop that needs 50K to restore and you feel it is worth 20K, or you try and pawn it off as a condition that you seem to see with the rose colored glasses on and rest of us see the item for what it is. Yep, I can get sarcastic if you get smart with me, or like over on PY, feel your knowledge/experience is the end all to that discussion because you are all that is in the plush garden of Pontiac Stuart hates when I speak my mind. So he has the POWER to eliminate any post/comment he feels is "inappropriate" and he has certainly made a number of my replies disappear. LOL

But when Stuart ads a stupid or sarcastic comment to the discussion, I don't have an issue calling him out on it - and I did, so he didn't like it and I got banned, LOL. The only difference is that I cannot pull his reply and make it vanish.......and I can't ban his a**.

I gotta say that this forum is far better. Those who are here are here to help. I don' know of any who feel they are know-it alls like over on PY. Even if I knew everything, I would still listen and do my best to pass along or explain what I know in a manner that you could understand, and not make you feel like a jerk for asking or get high and mighty as some of the Pontiac gods I have encountered over on PY.

So how offended am I by being banned. Well, it just breaks my heart and I feel I will need years of psycho-therapy and hope I recover. This may have a big influence on me in my retirement years and it is possible that a deep depression could set in and my health fail quickly. Oh the nerve of those guys at PY and the Nazi moderator Stuart.

Should we invite Stuart to be our moderator or do you think we are mature enough to moderate ourselves? (y)

View attachment 136983
LOL!

Pretty much nailed it.

Stewie and Bman have a major case of Napoleon complex

 

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Old
07-26-2020, 02:35 PM
BLACK 67 GOAT's Avatar's AvatarBLACK 67 GOAT
BLACK 67 GOAT is online now

Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Abington Twp., Pa.
Posts: 25
Default
1967 GTO 400 H.O. For sale. $17,500.
1967 Pontiac GTO H.O. 360 HP Automatic. 1 of only 13,827 produced with the H.O. engine. PHS documented ALL NUMBERS MATCH DRIVETRAIN . 26k actual miles as documented on clean and clear PA. Title in my name. Needs restoration. Will need rust repair. Fenders, doors and quarters are solid. Engine runs really good, trans shifts good and 3.55 posi works like it should. Runs, drives and stops. Great candidate for a frame off restoration. Signet gold with black Cordova top and gold interior. Call or text Me for more pictures or if you have any questions. 570-498-0756
Attached Thumbnails
[IMG alt="Click image for larger version
Name: 1D7601F7-2AA1-4556-A4B3-F9E327A249B9.jpg Views: 681 Size: 66.1 KB ID: 545854"]https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=545854&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1595788208[/IMG]


I posted the 67 H.O. over on PY that PJ is referring to. Here is the exact copy of my add from over on PY. I have never mislead (PULL ONE OVER ON) anyone in my life nor was i trying to with this add as PJ suggests! I clearly state WILL NEED RUST REPAIR! I NEVER said the floors were solid! I posted one picture so people could get a general idea of what the car is. I clearly stated to call or text for more info or more pictures. It's much easier to text or email a butt load of pictures than to post to a site. The problem is most people don't read the add which PJ obviously didn't or he wouldn't have said the floors were solid which I never said. The car is posted on FB marketplace as well with 20 detailed pictures of frame, floors etc. and I still get people that think they can get in and drive this car for a daily driver because they don't read the add or really look at the pictures. That is why I prefer someone call me so I can describe the car in detail and answer any questions one might have. I have sold a lot of cars and the buyers never had any surprises. I don't have a problem with someone thinking I'm asking too much, that's why it's an asking price. However I do have a problem with someone suggesting that I'm dishonest.
Big difference between RUST and ROT especially when it comes to the frame.

You may not be dishonest but your ad is misleading with missing pertinent info that seems to be left out for a reason. Guys around here get a 15/16" wrench up the side of there head for wasting people's time like that. Especially guys that don't do farsebook.
 

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Big difference between RUST and ROT especially when it comes to the frame.

You may not be dishonest but your ad is misleading with missing pertinent info that seems to be left out for a reason. Guys around here get a 15/16" wrench up the side of there head for wasting people's time like that. Especially guys that don't do farsebook.
You gotta ask the tough questions, ask for more pics. Any reputable seller will provide the pictures and answer questions.If not, that is a good sign he is hiding something.
Spending any of my hard earned money on anything means I am going to research it, look it over well, check the title ,etc.
Buyer beware.
Metal rusts, wood rots, lets be clear, but I understand your enthusiasm of the whole rusty mess. I personaly would not buy a rusty car like that .Mine came from the SW desert.It is pretty solid.I have no desire to fix rust LOL
 

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I purchased a 67 Cougar a few years ago that had both shock tower covers missing. It was not disclosed. I thought a rubber flap went there like on the inner fenders of chevys and such. Turns out this a structural piece that reinforces the shock tower and has the bumper to limit front suspension travel. Needless to say if I traveled over raised train tracks like we have in the country. They would be scrapping me off the road. That is my back story on this. A long time cougar enthusist stopped me from driving it this way. Dont assume people know. In this communication age not all people communicate well. I know I dont.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Old
07-26-2020, 02:35 PM
BLACK 67 GOAT's Avatar's AvatarBLACK 67 GOAT
BLACK 67 GOAT is online now

Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Abington Twp., Pa.
Posts: 25
Default
1967 GTO 400 H.O. For sale. $17,500.
1967 Pontiac GTO H.O. 360 HP Automatic. 1 of only 13,827 produced with the H.O. engine. PHS documented ALL NUMBERS MATCH DRIVETRAIN . 26k actual miles as documented on clean and clear PA. Title in my name. Needs restoration. Will need rust repair. Fenders, doors and quarters are solid. Engine runs really good, trans shifts good and 3.55 posi works like it should. Runs, drives and stops. Great candidate for a frame off restoration. Signet gold with black Cordova top and gold interior. Call or text Me for more pictures or if you have any questions. 570-498-0756
Attached Thumbnails
[IMG alt="Click image for larger version
Name: 1D7601F7-2AA1-4556-A4B3-F9E327A249B9.jpg Views: 681 Size: 66.1 KB ID: 545854"]https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=545854&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1595788208[/IMG]


I posted the 67 H.O. over on PY that PJ is referring to. Here is the exact copy of my add from over on PY. I have never mislead (PULL ONE OVER ON) anyone in my life nor was i trying to with this add as PJ suggests! I clearly state WILL NEED RUST REPAIR! I NEVER said the floors were solid! I posted one picture so people could get a general idea of what the car is. I clearly stated to call or text for more info or more pictures. It's much easier to text or email a butt load of pictures than to post to a site. The problem is most people don't read the add which PJ obviously didn't or he wouldn't have said the floors were solid which I never said. The car is posted on FB marketplace as well with 20 detailed pictures of frame, floors etc. and I still get people that think they can get in and drive this car for a daily driver because they don't read the add or really look at the pictures. That is why I prefer someone call me so I can describe the car in detail and answer any questions one might have. I have sold a lot of cars and the buyers never had any surprises. I don't have a problem with someone thinking I'm asking too much, that's why it's an asking price. However I do have a problem with someone suggesting that I'm dishonest.
OK, I will admit my poor memory on the floors, I picked that up with "Fenders, doors and quarters are solid."

However, no mention of floors, so assume "not solid" and that should have been upfront in the first description.

Scroll down to Post #6 and that's where the frame rot and the poorly pitted underside is seen. This too, in my opinion, should have been up front in the first description. I get that you are trying to promote the positive attributes of the car in an effort to sell it. But in my opinion, as is often done, the bad news items of the car are not included right off the bat. Personally, I don't play that game. You can put lipstick on a turd to pretty it up and sell it, but in the end, its still a turd. I don't need to call/text for more info and waste both my time and a sellers time only to find out, yeah, the frame is rusted away and it'll need a replacement, or yeah, the floors and inner rockers are badly pitted and rusty. I've lived in the rust belt. I know what the cause of rotted frames come from. Along with a rotted frame is the 95% chance that flooring is in poor condition. Now if it was not salt, then it sat in a field and the results can be the same. Moisture from the ground will rot frames as well as floors - I've looked at and worked on enough of these to include cars I owned.

You may not feel that you are dishonest, but in my opinion, your out of the gate photo and description was not up front, and to me, borders on not being honest. Your scapegoat is adding that people can call/text you for more info. Yep, someone did ask for more pics, and you supplied them. Why not post those same pics originally - which would have fared better as an honest description along with this car cannot be driven as is and will not pass a safety inspection seeing so many people seem to think it is a car you can hop in and drive. Maybe they are reading the ad and seeing the photos, but maybe your audience is not that mechanically car savvy but have the money and would not know what even a frame is, so this may be on you for not posting in a manner that those with more money than common sense can understand.

In restoring or rebuilding any car, I want to know all the problems and what needs fixing so I can make a qualified decision if I want to even look at the car or take it on as project. In the manner you structured your ad, you did not provide that info which is more important to anyone truly looking to work on/with such a car. You are correct, you can put any price on the car you choose, but in doing so, the investment typically has to justify the return in most cases. Does it mean the car won't sell? Who knows.

Maybe in the future, you will take a different approach with cars you sell. Put the known problems and repairs needed right up front in your first ad/post so as to provide a complete picture of what you are actually selling - an honest approach. Let potential buyers see what they may have to actually invest and decide for themselves if your selling price is a good value or one that will require a heavy investment in restoration costs that they may or may not be willing to jump into. Then let those who may be interested text/call you for more details about the photos they see.

So my take on your post still stands. It was not an attack on you personally, but an example of how PY will delete any reply/post that is comment other than positive, supportive, or question. Again, if you are going to post on a public forum, then you should be able to accept ALL comments or don't post. But, it is a PY policy that you cannot do this and Stuart the Nazi moderator has the power to delete or ban people. I PM'd Stuart and suggested he could easily eliminate any future comments/posts that are not favorable, and I've seen other posts he apparently did not catch, by simply not allowing anyone to comment/post on the forum and could only PM the seller directly. Would end all issues and Stuart could spend more time playing shuffle board rather than be tied down to the computer at the home.

01 Rot..jpg
02 Rust.jpg
 

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You gotta ask the tough questions, ask for more pics. Any reputable seller will provide the pictures and answer questions.If not, that is a good sign he is hiding something.
Spending any of my hard earned money on anything means I am going to research it, look it over well, check the title ,etc.
Buyer beware.
Metal rusts, wood rots, lets be clear, but I understand your enthusiasm of the whole rusty mess. I personaly would not buy a rusty car like that .Mine came from the SW desert.It is pretty solid.I have no desire to fix rust LOL
Nobody should have to ask if the frame is shot.

That's the first thing the seller knows. Should be the first thing the seller lists. Anything less is deception.
 

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you should do a dummy account and just troll the crap out of them.
You should do a dummy account and ask him all the IMPORTANT questions that should be asked.That will let his true character shine through..

Then request a video of the COMPLETE FRAME.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Ya, I don't mean to rank on the guy, but this was a good example of my dealings with PY and why I got spanked. I think most seem to agree that those pics should have been in post #1 and with a much better overall description, rather than a generic one. This was one reason why I was compelled to post a comment and no doubt was a little rude, but it really ticked me off as it I was seeing a Bait-and-Hook move hoping some poor sucker bites.

So that was just one of my posts that got deleted real quick and I got a nasty reminder from Stuart, or some moderator, what the PY policy was for the Sale Sections. I do not agree with the PY policy, as those less experienced or simply an auto enthusiast without the needed knowledge to protect themselves can get into trouble thinking an item was a great deal when in fact its wasn't so.

I think we know this kind of selling happens and we have had members share some of these experiences as they were car hunting. The difference is that they typically provided the info or website for us to view and voice comments on the car in question. We all seem to pick up on different things that may not look correct or just right that can help the would be purchaser see what we see and either ask more questions of the seller or do a little more research and make a better informed decision as to whether to purchase or not. Isn't that what we should be doing, constructive criticism of a car or part being sold? Apparently on PY you just can't willy-nilly throw your comments out there on what you see and provide opinion. So I guess PY has no issues promoting "snakes" who could ultimately take advantage of the naive Pontiac enthusiast who may want to enter the Pontiac world and keep the torch burning for the next generation. Shame on PY, shame on their policies, and shame on moderators like Stuart.

I also think they have too many individual sections which promote bullying because it is very easy for an individual, or group of individuals, to run the section and somewhat control it through ignoring you completely, telling you that your post is not contributing to the topic, trying to make you believe THEY are the expert here and not you, or "you know this is the race section, right?" when you are commenting on oil pans (I believe that was what it was) on a street car - I suppose no one races a street car, right? I see members post in both "Street," "Race," and in the category their car falls into just to cover all bases and get an answer from someone because even they are not sure where they should post their question. So again, shame on PY for allowing this to develop and not notice. "Street" & "Race" should simply be grouped as "High Performance" to bust up these members and cliques, and some of the sections should be grouped together under a generalized heading which may even help with better responses.

But what do I know, I'm a Peckerwood. LOL
 
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