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Discussion Starter #1
I read several posts on various websites about installing this Muncie 4 speed into my GTO but still am having problems. A few years ago, I had the transmission rebuilt and re-installed it without a problem. Fast forward to now. I took the transmission out again for weird shifting issues and was told that my clutch was probably worn so I replaced the flywheel, clutch, and this pilot bushing

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RAM-BU75

I am still about 1" short of the bellhousing. Before I mess something up, is it ok to lightly enlarge the bushing while installed with a dremel on the lowest speed? I assume the problem may be that the shaft isn't going into the bushing all the way? I used the clutch alignment tool and only removed it after installing the bellhousing and just before the transmission. The alignment tool goes into the bushing but very snug. I also tried using two long bolts on the top holes with the heads cut off for alignment.

I'm no mechanic by any means but thought this looked fairly straight forward. I appreciate any and all help. Thanks.
 

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Pilot bearing looks about right to me. You DO NOT want to use a dremel on it. Pull it out and slide it on the end of the trans input shaft if your feel it is not fitting correctly.

1. Did you match up your old pilot bushing with the new one? It is possible it is not seating correctly. Look in there with a flashlight to make sure it is going into the crankshaft all the way. I did have one that was too large in diameter and set it up on a drill and sanded it down a tad to get it to fit, but it has to be a snug/tight fit so it does not spin in the crank.
2. New flywheel? Which one did you use? a.) The Hays 10.5"-11" dual pattern flywheel, if you used this, is not balanced to match your engine. You may experience a vibration. b.) The Hays flywheel uses the "short" head bolts at the center hub where it bolts to the crank as it is not as deep as the factory flywheel and the larger bolt heads may hit the clutch disc springs. (Ask me how I know a & b :yesnod:)
3. Did you replace the clutch disc and diaphram with the exact same brand/type that came out of your car? Some kits include the throwout bearing which can be wrong for a Pontiac application (another one of my experiences). I've never had any interference problems, so I don't think this should be a problem unless it is not sliding on the collar and hanging up for some reason. I would check that it slides the full length of the collar it rides on. If you install the wrong length throwout bearing, your clutch will not release properly. There is a short, intermediate, and long throwout bearing. (With the trans in position, can you move the clutch fork? Make sure it is not binding for some reason and hanging your trans up.)
4. If you know that the pilot bearing does indeed fit the end of the trans shaft, then I would measure from the pilot bushing (installed in the crankshaft) to the outside edge of the bellhousing and then measure from the shoulder of the input shaft (where the back of your pilot bushing will ride) on the transmission to the front of the trans case. You should have the same measurements. If the measurement you took off the trans is longer than the measurement you got from just the pilot bushing to back edge of the bellhousing -you have a problem, and that has to be that the pilot bushing is not right or seating deep enough into the crank.
5. If everything checks out, sometimes the collar at the front of the trans which your throwout bearing rides on, and centers the trans into the bellhousing, can be a real snug fit and can seemingly cause a problem. It fits into the bellhousing pretty tight, and maybe moreso that it is hotter in the summer and all things expand. You want to make sure it is going in square and level, any angle will add to the problem, as will the weight of the trans if it is hanging. It is best supported with a jack versus doing the "he-man muscle up and in" technique that most of us have done.

You can draw the transmission into the bellhousing using the 4 attaching bolts. BUT, IF DONE WRONG OR YOU FORCEFULLY TIGHTEN THEM, YOU MAY BREAK AN EAR OFF YOUR TRANSMISSION. I have had the same experience where it would not go in that last little bit and used the tightening procedure to draw the trans in that last amount, but I know everything that went in was exactly what I had taken out and everything matched/fit. Never broke an ear off any of my transmissions, but it can happen. Sometimes you can put just a little tension on the bolts and then give it a shake/jiggle while pushing in to seat it that last bit.

In any case, you want to double check everything. Match your parts up and make sure they fit. Hate to say it, but if it isn't American made (and much of it isn't) the fit is not always as it should be, so check everything.:thumbsup:
 

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Did you try having someone step on the clutch while you try to get it in? If your by yourself I've use'd a small come along, hook it on the fork and around the rear axle to pull it in so it will move while your trying to get the tranny in. Probaly not the smartest thing to do it but it works.
 

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just the slightest bit of rust or corrosion on the end of the shaft will make the tranny not go in all the way.
 

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+1 on having someone push in the clutch while you "seat" the transmission in the pilot bearing.

DO NOT force or try to draw the trans in with the bolts, it should go right in once the pedal is pushed in or something is out of line.
 

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What all these guys said. NEVER pull in a trans with the bolts. Have a buddy jump in the car and push the clutch while you stab the trans from under the car. It'll slide right in. BTDT many times! You can also try rotating the mainshaft to engage the clutch plate while you push the trans forward. Sometimes these things go easily, sometimes they like to put of a fight.
 

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What all these guys said. NEVER pull in a trans with the bolts. Have a buddy jump in the car and push the clutch while you stab the trans from under the car. It'll slide right in. BTDT many times! You can also try rotating the mainshaft to engage the clutch plate while you push the trans forward. Sometimes these things go easily, sometimes they like to put of a fight.
Gotta admit, never did the "push the clutch" trick. I also never used the alignment dowel, I had the front input shaft from a Muncie that I used (and still have) that I slid into the pilot bushing and got the clutch disc aligned prior to trans installation. Learned a new trick.:yesnod:
 

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Jim, the actual imput shaft from an old Muncie as an alignment tool will work really well. It's the best way to go. Most people don't have one, though, and the plastic one that comes in the clutch kits isn't a precise fit. The clutch-push trick seems to always work well for us struggling gravel-backers, though!
 

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^ :smilielol: Ahh, gravel driveways are hell when putting in a trans, but they are easier to clean.

I will say I'd rather bench press a Muncie into place over a turbo 400!
 

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I have bench pressed mine in on two different occasions (once on gravel), I didn't use the clutch pedal trick but I got it in. I will tell you that being off center or not level by fraction will make it hang up just like your experiencing. I think you need to expand your swear word vocabulary, then you will get it in.
 

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When I removed the trans from my '66 Coronet 20 years ago, I thought it would be just like a Muncie. It wasn't. That 833 iron 4 speed probably weighed 160 pounds. THAT was a nasty surprise....and yes, I was on my back!!
 

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^ :smilielol: Ahh, gravel driveways are hell when putting in a trans, but they are easier to clean.

I will say I'd rather bench press a Muncie into place over a turbo 400!

Try an old cast iron 4-speed hydramatic out in the road, in February, in snow that you had to dig out around your car.:thumbsup: My technique to install a hydramatic was to get your dad to suit up and help insert a 2x4 under the front, then tilt it up by the back and insert another 2x4 under the rear. Then tilt the front up, insert another 2x4 and repeat for the rear. Keep doing this until you walk the trans up on a pile of 2x4's and have it level and close enough to the back of the engine where you can get it started on the alignment dowels and get a bolt started.

Of course that lesson groomed me to become more sophisticated as I mastered using a floor jack and pumping the handle with one hand while on my side, balancing the automatic type trans on the top of the jack pad, and doing some tricky moves when you had to tilt the front of the trans to match the tilt of the engine because your car was up on ramps -just hoping that the trans didn't slip off.

Bench pressing Muncie's and cast iron 3-speeds were a breeze by comparison.:yesnod:
 

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Guys, lets just hope those days are behind us. I remember doing coil springs on my '66 GTO out on the street in front of the house. Did one on one night after work, drove it to work lopsided the next day, and did the other the next night after work. It was my only car. Another time, with the '66, I was doing a clutch replacement out on the street. I dropped the trans, and when I returned from the machine shop with my freshly turned flywheel, the transmisson was gone! Stolen! That was taken care of for $100 at the wrecking yard, out of a wrecked '67 GTO.....and it turned out to be in MUCH better shape than the poor abused unit that had been stolen......Ahh, those were the days!
 

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...Of course that lesson groomed me to become more sophisticated as I mastered using a floor jack and pumping the handle with one hand while on my side, balancing the automatic type trans on the top of the jack pad, and doing some tricky moves when you had to tilt the front of the trans to match the tilt of the engine because your car was up on ramps -just hoping that the trans didn't slip off.

Ahhhh... I developed the jack pump method with my foot. Of course I couldn't twist the handle to lower it, but while raising, it left my hands free. ;)
 

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x3 On pressing the clutch in while a guy below wiggles it in place. Works every time on my 26 spline TKO. DO NOT cut into the pilot with the dremel! Having pulled and installed numerous manual cases im fairly sure that isnt your issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Ok, I finally go the transmission it. I got it pretty close and put the bolts in and lightly, i mean lightly, tightened the bolts and wiggled it several times. I have it all hooked back up. I'm trying to adjust the clutch now. It goes about halfway down easily then the pedal gets harder. It won't shift into a gear though. I'm almost positive everything is correct. How much do I need to adjust the rod for the clutch pedal?
 

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How much free travel do you have at the top? You want somewhere around 1" of free travel at the pedal. If you have more than that the clutch may not fully disengage when you press the pedal all the way to the floor.

If your free travel is what you're feeling as "pretty easy" half way down, then you have way too much and that would explain why you can't get it into gear.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Finally got it all back together and adjusted. It's grips alot more than before. I think I'm going to like the new clutch. Thanks to everyone for the help.
 
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