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Discussion Starter #1
Well first you have the GTO losing to a Mustang GT that it completely crushed in performance, by the Gotta Have It Factor.

Well the nimrods at that stupid rag are at it again. The Corvette Z06 takes on the Porsche 911 Turbo and the Ferrari F430. The Corvette is faster accelerating and over 120 runs away from the others. It has a higher top speed, in fact so high they were afraid to test it to find out what the top speed is. It gets better gas mileage. It corners better. It brakes better. It's 2 seconds faster than the Porsche and 3 seconds faster than the Ferrari on a 1.6 mile road course. It costs half what the Porsche costs and a third the cost of the Ferrari.

It comes in third because it got 0 points for rear seat space and it doesn't have the Gotta Have It factor of the other 2 cars.
 

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Is Car&Driver becoming like the New York Times?? You know, everything that's American is bad AND all that is foreign, we should all be so lucky??
 

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Like it or not, Corvettes are still (for the most part) considered "middle-aged male mid-life crisis" cars...even if GM has really stepped up the performance and handling of them.

Another factor against Vettes are that the majority of individuals who can actually afford a new Porsche or Ferrari don't even consider a Vette. I know that if I could afford a new Ferrari, I'd buy one...whether or not it could out-run or out-handle the Vette.

Vettes are a dime-a-dozen out on the road these days...how many Ferraris do you pass on a daily basis?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
This was a test of performance cars, and just like the Mustang GT vs the GTO, the car with the most performance didn't win. In the GTO's case it was more expensive but only marginally so.The performance differential was way greater than the price differential. In this case the Z06 was either a half or a third the price and still was the better performer. Car & Driver has become a magazine that bases the winner on subjective catagories like is this a pretty and popular car. That's not what I want from a magazine. I want objective results. Car a is faster than car b and it brakes better and handles better for less money. If you still think car b is better because it is pretty go buy it, but the real world is car a is the better performance car.
 

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I think the NY Times analogy is dead nuts on.

Take the Z06, remove the bow-tie and call it a Emereletto or some italian sounding name and it wins by 100000000 points.
 

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Oh I lost faith in C&D a long time ago. Their articles have degraded from obvious bias to random incoherence. Completely discounting the car because it doesn't have a backseat is retarded. What's their excuse with the GTO/mustang GT thing? Didn't hear anyone complaining about the horrible seats in the GT then.

Nitpicking.
 

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Do what I did. Mail the magazine back to the editor, tell him to jam it where the sun doesn't shine -- and enclose a letter canceling your subscription. They get enough people doing that -- and they'll have no choice but to be objective going forward.

The only car magazine worth reading anymore is Automotive News -- because it's actually about the automobile business -- and is fact driven.

As for all those other rags, they're just stuffed with losers. Wannabes who are always going to go for the high-dollar stuff -- because they know full and well that if they report the truth -- that GM can kick Porsche and Ferrari's ass at a fraction of the cost -- there will be no more loaners for their high-school reunions and all-expense paid junkets to Europe. And if they don't get those -- they'll be exposed for what they are -- lower middle class, khaki-wearing zeroes.

Think about it this way. Back in the good old days of car magazines, back in the 70's and 80's -- you had no idea what the writers looked like. They were just reporters. Now? They have to have their little pictures at the top of their columns -- are get themselves in every article's photos. You can almost hear their thoughts: "Gee, look at me kicking the tires of a Ferrari in Italy. Don't I look cool in my Dockers and short-sleeve JC Penney no-iron dress shirt? Wow, the chicks back in Michigan are really going to dig me. I'm famous." Yeah, right dude. Try cracking $50K a year.

I'm serious. If you're that P.O.'d about American cars getting the short end of the stick by a bunch of morons stop reading their magazine.
 

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silvergoat2k6 said:
Like it or not, Corvettes are still (for the most part) considered "middle-aged male mid-life crisis" cars...even if GM has really stepped up the performance and handling of them.

Another factor against Vettes are that the majority of individuals who can actually afford a new Porsche or Ferrari don't even consider a Vette. I know that if I could afford a new Ferrari, I'd buy one...whether or not it could out-run or out-handle the Vette.

Vettes are a dime-a-dozen out on the road these days...how many Ferraris do you pass on a daily basis?
Hmmmm? The saying, "More money than brains" comes to mind.
 

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Kudos to you for the obvious stupidy of the got to have it factor. Totally subjective. That having been said, two thangs: The article (in the same issue) on global warming was over the top. AND...... A Ferrari: Off the hook - and if anyone out there given the choice of the 430 vs the Vette (and I love the Vette) would leave the Prancing Horse for the Yankee well..... your nuts. Its a freakin Ferrari for cryin out loud and a damn nice one for that matter. If I could plunk down the cash for the car I would. Nah - I wouldn't. I'd like to be able to though!
 

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Is there no pride left? Will everyone sell out? Not me Baby GM for life!!! Look how far the vette has come in the past few years!! I'm not selling out for some Italian salami no matter what.
 

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GUYS - OMG - Did you read the article? Selling out? Italian Salami? Good Grief. The Zought6 is an amazing ride and they said so. It is not a Ferrari and is not intended to be. The Ferrari is a hand built, exotic. If you were given a choice, of the three (no cash considerations) and would take the Vette over the Ferrari you're on crack. The Vette is amazing and I would love to have one. Take the Horse and sell the damn thing, buy the Yankee and put 100 grand in a Mutual Fund. Or just keep the Ferrari and have one of the most exclusive Marks on the planet. Sorry - Red blooded American, lover of things that burn gas and go fast - regardless of origin - Hell the GTO is an Opel Omega (German) built as a Monaro in Oz, converted to a Pontiac and sold here. :seeya:
 

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bg2m8o said:
Take the Horse and sell the damn thing, buy the Yankee and put 100 grand in a Mutual Fund. Or just keep the Ferrari and have one of the most exclusive Marks on the planet.
Trust me, I've always been a big fan of the Vette and still is. And to be honest with you, I went to trade my goat in on a 2002 ZO6 yesterday but somene had bought it a day sooner. If I had a choice of the Ferrari or the Vette without any cash consideration like you said, I'd use what little intelligence I have and choose the Ferrari. This is a chance for me to have a car that I probably won't even see in person let alone own. Then I'd puchase a ZO6 (new or used) and have the best of both worlds. But how realistic is it for someone to just hand over the keys to a Ferrari. You may have a better chance of winning the lotto. But if someone did, I'm with you on this on. Give me the Ferrari.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
bg2m8o said:
Kudos to you for the obvious stupidy of the got to have it factor. Totally subjective. That having been said, two thangs: The article (in the same issue) on global warming was over the top. AND...... A Ferrari: Off the hook - and if anyone out there given the choice of the 430 vs the Vette (and I love the Vette) would leave the Prancing Horse for the Yankee well..... your nuts. Its a freakin Ferrari for cryin out loud and a damn nice one for that matter. If I could plunk down the cash for the car I would. Nah - I wouldn't. I'd like to be able to though!

I definately agree with you on the Gotta-Have-It factor. If you remove it you are left with the Ferrari being the slowest and most expensive. It's also the lowest in points with the Porsche second because it got points for having a backseat.

I understand the Ferrari is an incredible car. Porsches are too. The thing of it is the Vette is a better performance car. This was a test of performance cars, not pretty boy cars to pull up to the club in. THE Z06 WON.

I will agree with you on the global warming article being right on. When you actually look at the facts and find out that water vapor in the atmosphere is the biggest player in global warming it lets you realize the truth. The global warming crowd is really just interested in controlling the way people live.

For those that didn't get to read it here is the article in brief. Nature generates 30 times more co2 than man. That means man is responsible for less than 3.5% of the co2 in the atmosphere. All greenhouse gases combined only produce less than 2% of the greenhouse effect. The major cause of global warming through the greenhouse effect is water vapor. Ever go out on a cloudy night and feel how much warmer it is than a clear night?

Another point of the article is that 18,000 years ago the earth was largely covered by glaciers. In the US those glaciers were as far south as the Georgia Florida border. By about 4-5000 years ago the US was mostly free of glaciers. What this shows us is that this current period of warming started around 15-18,000 years ago. Another point is that these same scientists were warning us in 1983 that the earth was entering a period of global cooling. We at that time were entering an ice age that was caused by man's burning of fossil fuels. The particulates were to blame at that point in time.

Well I still disagree with their finding in the Vette,911 Turbo, and Ferrari comparison, but at least Pat Bedard is right on. He saved me this month from ending a 30 year subscription.
 

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Honestly, if i had the money to be able to choose between a Vette and a Ferrari, i would choose the vette and use the price difference as mod money. My reason being, among other things, there's just too much **** involved when you get an exotic car. You can't really drive it to work, in weather, over speed bumps, you can't mod it, you have to keep it garaged, there are thousands of people out there who would get a hardon from vandalizing an exotic, parts are laughably expensive, they require constant maintenance, and once your warranty runs out you might as well just store it.

They just are not practical, I'd rather have something that can go anywhere, I know how to work on, doesn't draw unneeded attention, and serves a purpose. That's why domestic companies don't make Lambos, they'd sell like 3.
 

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don't get me wrong, if I had to pick one I would take the Ferrari as well. Then sell it , buy a Z06 and dump the rest of the cash into the vette!!!!!
Yes the ferrari is a wonderfull piece of machinery. I just love that american power look and feel.
 
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