Pontiac GTO Forum banner

1 - 20 of 123 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,496 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
WARNING! Do not send your engine to this hack!


Well after almost a year of waiting to get this engine back from Jim L. @ CVMS including tearing it back down to a long block to fix things like rusted tins, cracked hub, leaking timing cover etc. I again had noise coming from the rockers and since this was the third time I needed to go back in to adjust I decided to pull one of the Magnum roller rockers to see WTF was going on.
Evidently Jim just pulled whatever push rods out of his junk pile, the rod on the bottom in the pic is the proper rod, the other 15 were destroyed by the lift on the cam and just hammered into fragments.
At least one out of the 16 was right.



I ordered a new set from Comp cams, they arrived and I installed them yesterday and used a magnet to get all the fragments I could and changed the oil and filter.
Of course the damage has been done, I now have 2 pounds of oil pressure at idle and 20 pounds at 3,000 RPM.
500 miles on the engine and it is junk, thanks Jim thousands of dollars pissed down a rathole over 30 dollars worth of pushrods.
I wouldn't send a lawnmower engine to CVMS and at this point I don't know what I am going to do with this car since there are no more reputable Pontiac builders and I don't have another 7K to throw away.
If anyone wants this car click on my pics and make me an offer, I have over 60K into it and am done putting money into it.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Hope you cool off and do the right thing which is to take him to court so he does not screw any others. Not sure of state but most have a small claim court process that you could handle your self with pictures and a good write up from a willing engine builder. May not have the limits but might get close and maybe he will settle long before, best luck Doug
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
If this is them have you tried this???CVMS warrants all products against defects in workmanship. New parts purchased through CVMS are warranted by the manufacturer, and CVMS will act as an agent for the customer in the event of a warranty claim. Parts not purchased through CVMS are the responsibility of the provider.
Complete engines machined and assembled by CVMS, and parts supplied by CVMS, intended for normal highway use, are warranted for a period of one (1) year from date of delivery (or pickup) or 12,000 miles, which ever occurs first. That warranty is limited to engine assembly and parts attached by CVMS, and does not include incidental damage.
Labor charges for work performed under this warranty are limited to the fair and traditional charges for the operations performed. CVMS must authorize any warranty related work prior to accepting the charges.
CVMS does not pay labor claims to private party installations.
Any issues arrising from neglect or abuse, including but not limited to, racing or other performance contest, overheating, oil starvation, application of nitrous oxide, etc. are not covered under warranty.
Issues arrising from installation are the responsibility of the installer.
There are no warranties, implied or expressed, for any racing or other competition application engines, either to performance or longevity.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,496 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Yeah read that bogus warranty, the guy is done and sold the biz.
The guy is 2,400 miles away and I am not going to waste time and money on a small claims court action that will net me an uncollectable judgment.
The rods I sent with the engine were all the welded ball type like the one at the bottom in the pic and were checked before I sent them.
I don't have a clue what happened to my parts or why the wrong rods were installed all I know is I got royally screwed by Jim L. @ CVMS.
I have zero recourse as far as getting anything back all I can do is post this info so the next poor SOB may find this review and not send his engine to this hack.
Pisses me off, I did my due diligence and research because I didn't want to be the chump that spent thousands and got 500 miles out of the engine yet here I am, shoddy workmanship and I am also out the 15 hundred in shipping both ways just to have this ******* lose bolts and FUBAR my engine.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
94 Posts
CVMS did the rebuild on my 389 tri-power. I was in the process of installing the motor when I was pulled away on 04/29/16 for family issues. I'll be home by 05/29/16 and plan to get re-started asap. I hope I will not have the same issues GR is having, I'll keep the board posted.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
776 Posts
Sorry, man, this sucks horribly:surprise: I can surely understand your being PO'd big time. If you don't sell her, perhaps Rukee's thoughts have some merit.

I for one appreciate you posting this BS from CVMS....I had entertained thoughts about him re-doing my tired engine. NOT NOW. I had a very thoughtful meticulous Ford racing machinist do a Chev 350 for my Studebaker and he did it beautifully. Although I sold it two years ago, I hear from friends in NC that the 350 is still smoking newer Camaros and Mustangs. My point is that I think I'll talk to him about learning Pontiac idiosyncrasies and do the work here where I can stop in every day. An intelligent conscientious machinist can learn to do Pontiacs, just as they learn IH engines, etc. I'm thinking it is crap that only 1/2 dozen guys in the whole USA can do a Pontiac engine. Sticking with local people who are trustworthy makes more sense to me.

Am really sorry you got the shaft from someone who reputedly was a really good shop. Hopefully some lemonade can be made from this lemon experience.
We are all rooting for you:smile3:
 

·
64-67 Expert
Joined
·
8,561 Posts
This SUCKS. But, I would cool off and do exactly as Rukee suggested. If your crank is scored, that's something else. But if it's just the bearings, it's a cheap and easy fix...Backing away from this thing, and looking at it with an overview, you have an otherwise cherry and gorgeous '67 GTO in a great color combination. Even with a $500 junkyard engine, the car would be pretty special. Take a break, and get back to us. I feel VERY poorly about being one of the guys that recommended CVMS in the first place. There are some excellent shops in southern Ca, and they are listed on the AMES website. Paul Carter is one of the guys, and he's in AZ, but I would consider talking to him....I'd bet he'd help.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,496 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
It isn't your fault GTOG I just happened to be the guy in the queue when Jim's eye went south.
When I got it back with the cracked hub, missing parts and rusted out tins I should have torn it down further than I did and I would have found those bogus rods.
I am just flat out of cash and haven't even told the wife the engine is junk, I just want the car to quietly go away at this point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,842 Posts
I hate that you have all these problems, man, one after another. Never seen anything like it. Good thing that isn't my motor because I would be making a personal road trip with engine in tow. Guarantee problem would be solved. :mad:

I gotta ask this out of curiosity. What kind of lift does your cam have? What is the rocker ratio of your Magnum roller rockers?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,496 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
PJ the guy is done, he may have done some of the machining on this engine but whoever assembled it didn't have a clue.

Lift is. 462 on intake .470 on exhaust 1.5 ratio on the rockers.
You can see when it is at the top of the lobe with a mirror the seat in the lifter was cold rolling the metal on the pushrods.
The only one that wasn't screwed up was the one with the welded ball.
It needed the radius, those were the wrong rods and they took out the bearings.
Oil pressure when cold is 60 and goes to 80 if I rev it, 40 at idle.
It goes down to like 2 or 3 when warm at idle and the idiot light starts to flicker.
Do you think the cam bearings are toast or just the rods and mains?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,842 Posts
PJ the guy is done, he may have done some of the machining on this engine but whoever assembled it didn't have a clue.

Lift is. 462 on intake .470 on exhaust 1.5 ratio on the rockers.
You can see when it is at the top of the lobe with a mirror the seat in the lifter was cold rolling the metal on the pushrods.
The only one that wasn't screwed up was the one with the welded ball.
It needed the radius, those were the wrong rods and they took out the bearings.
Oil pressure when cold is 60 and goes to 80 if I rev it, 40 at idle.
It goes down to like 2 or 3 when warm at idle and the idiot light starts to flicker.
Do you think the cam bearings are toast or just the rods and mains?
OK, nothing too exotic or radical on the cam & stock 1.5 ratio rocker arms.

I can't honestly say if the cam bearings would pose a problem or not. I would think that your filter would have picked up most of the debris. It could be possible that your oil pump screen may have gotten somewhat clogged up and that is the culprit. My experience of the past in losing my oil pressure was the oil pick-up screen was so fine a mesh that the heavy weight oil collapsed it and allowed the unscreened oil to be drawn through the relief hole (which it is supposed to do when clogged) and sucked up a small chunk of rubber that got lodged in the pressure relief ball found in the oil pump. With the pressure relief ball stuck open, the engine does not build oil pressure. It is possible you may have experienced the same thing and have a trapped piece of metal in the pump holding the relief ball stuck open.

If you had the valve covers off, did you happen to see/notice if you had oil coming from the pushrods/rocker arms with the engine running? With such low oil pressure, there really should be very little. If you had a good flow, then I might also suspect the gauge/oil pressure line may be clogged and giving a false reading - just sayin'.

I can only imagine how disgusted you are at this point, but it may be the wisest to pull the engine and inspect it. At this point, I might almost bring it to a local machine shop and have them disassemble the bottom end to take a look and mike up the crank & bearings just to make sure there wasn't any other shoddy work that will bite you. I think we ALL share your frustration at this point.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,496 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I had good pressure on #6 intake, the rest not so much.
The two head bolts with the studs for the drippers were not on the engine just regular bolts and the drippers came in a box inside the crate with the engine and I don't have a set of clips so I has no way of really running it, when #6 started squirting I shut it down.
Jim has done enough engines to know about those bolts, that is another clue he didn't assemble it.
I spent all the funds I had, the engine already cost me twice buying gaskets and parts that were supposed to come on this "turnkey" engine so I should be finished not pulling the engine and starting over.
I had a bad feeling after having to tear it down to a longblock that it was going to just grenade, everything was done half assed I just didn't tear it down far enough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
322 Posts
Im sorry to hear about this first off. I can only imagine your frustration. I too was under the impression they did reasonable work. Wrong pushrod length? Thats busch league. A comp pushrod length checker costs $15 and takes 15 minutes to determine the right length with a sharpie and spinning the crank. Both my 400 and 455 I assembled myself that way if it locked up or rattled apart there is only one guy to blame. Me. I am in the process of selling my current aluminum headed 455 to move to a Chevrolet crate zz502. The only people it seems worth while to trust assembling an engine these days are yourself or a monster engine builder with a REAL warranty like GM.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,496 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Im sorry to hear about this first off. I can only imagine your frustration. I too was under the impression they did reasonable work. Wrong pushrod length? Thats busch league. A comp pushrod length checker costs $15 and takes 15 minutes to determine the right length with a sharpie and spinning the crank. Both my 400 and 455 I assembled myself that way if it locked up or rattled apart there is only one guy to blame. Me. I am in the process of selling my current aluminum headed 455 to move to a Chevrolet crate zz502. The only people it seems worth while to trust assembling an engine these days are yourself or a monster engine builder with a REAL warranty like GM.
All I can find is Butler for a small fortune and there is a shop in No Cal that will do an LS conversion also for a small fortune.
There is a local car show this Sunday and I am going to gimp it there and see if I can sell it, if not maybe Craigslist.
Time to throw in the towel and get what I can get for it and move on.
It sucks but it is what it is, no way I am rolling the dice and getting screwed again by another Pontiac prima donna.
Hindsight being 20/20 I should have bought a Hellcat.
:(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
322 Posts
Just remember its not the cars fault, your fault or anyones fault but the shops. I can shine a lot of light on the LS conversion as I a completing one in my father in laws 66 tempest as we speak. It was actually pretty painless if you have a question ask away. I vote cut the losses on that motor and install a GM built crate long block chevrolet engine or LS and keep the Goat! All the purists will say other wise but to hell with 50 year old technology. Nothing wrong with wanting an EFI turn key 20mpg ultra reliable drive train with over drive. Makes these old cars fun to drive if you ask me. With my car I just wanted the 1966 looks but everything else I shoot for modern technology. My 455 is for sale im all done with carbs and mechanical ignition timing. There is a reason why it is non existant in the modern world of new automobiles.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,496 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
The next guy can decide what he wants to do with it, I am done putting time and money into this car and I just need to take my loss and move on.
I should be enjoying this car now not looking at another year and thousands more.
B.B King said it best, the thrill is gone.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,496 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Send me some pictures the more the better and what you need to get out of it. Might have someone that could do the deal fast for you. Be fair to yourself and price to sell if that's what you want . [email protected]
I paid 44K for it and put another 20+ into it.
Power disc brakes, rebuilt suspension, Gardner factory repro exhaust system.
Here is the link to the ad when I bought it.

1967 Pontiac GTO, Calif Since New, ?Black Plate?, Matching Numbers, Beautifully Restored, 1st Owner 41 Yrs!

It wasn't fully restored, the mechanical end of it was shot but now it has been all gone through.
It looks as good as it did the day it rolled out of the factory except of course for the junk CVMS original engine.

I would like to get 40K for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
711 Posts
Man, I wish you were closer. My machinist is not a Pontiac guy per se, but regardless of what others say, a GOOD machine shop can do a nice build on that motor for not a lot of money. The shop I use has done Chevys for me, two Pontiacs, a 340 Mopar, and some Fords for some friends. Not an issue with any of them that I'm aware of. I'm 500 miles North of you but if you're interested, let me know.
 
1 - 20 of 123 Posts
Top