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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
1st time "poster" here...love the forum already though.

Last year I purchased a 1969 GTO Judge in midnight green. Very clean, numbers matching on the drivetrain, carb, distributor, radiator, etc.

This car is laser straight, no signs of body/rust repair, appears to be original interior, etc.

After watching Barrett-Jackson last weekend I tracked down the prior owner from receipts that were included at purchase. This Gentleman informed me he bought the car in an "unmolested" state in 1993 and put around 5-7K miles on it before selling in 2013. The only thing he did was paint/stripes since they were "faded". The car now has 26K but unable to trace ownership prior to 1993. Anyway, I said all this to get to a question later...In a nutshell, I'm now wondering if this might not be a survivor w/ 26K actual miles.

Here's the actual question: Everything I've taken off of this car for one reason or another appears to be original, #'s matching, etc. However, everything I read states the Rally II's are supposed to be coded 'JA' for the 69 GTO/Judge. Mine are a matching set of 'JK's'. Additionally, with the car came an AMA spec brochure for 1969 that states in the wheel section that the GTO's were to have 14x6 JK's in 1969...hence my confusion.

Can anyone say for certain the JK's are not original on my Judge? The AMA specs stating 'JK' seems like an odd coincidence when everyone else seems to believe JA is correct for all 69 GTO's?

Sorry for the ramble but wanted others to understand the original nature of what I've experienced with this car so far.

2nd question: Does anyone have advice on how I could trace this car prior to 1993 to understand whether the 26K odometer may perhaps be original miles? I tried a title search to no avail.

Thanks in advance,

1,611 Posts
hack, welcome aboard, the JK you are seeing is after the 14x6 stamping in the inside of the wheel. that two letter code can be either JJ or JK on a steel wheel from the 60's. the JJ or JK signified the style of outer wheel lip designation by the ASAE ( American Society Auto Engineers). All 34 different factory codes of original rally II's will have such a two letter designation.

On a factory rally II wheel produced after mid May of '68, it will have a series of date codes to the left and right of the valve stem, along with the 2 letter wheel ID code.

M1 1 @ 19 JA

Is a good example.
M1 = wheel plant
9 = 1969, in this case

1 = January
@ is the Dill valve stem cap
19 = the 19th day of the month

JA = ID codei of wheel, in this case 14x6 rally II wheel

There were two plants manufacturing early rallyII's, one, the MotorWheel plant in Michigan, one in Canada. JA and JC coded 14x6 rally II wheels decode as big letter wheels (no external dates) and small letter wheels (externally dated by the valve stem).

To confuse the issue more, there is actually an externally coded JK 14x7 rally II that was stamped from July of '68 up into May-early June of '69. this wheel was optional on '69 Pontiac GP's and '69 Firebirds. Late season '69 disc brake Birds and later '69 TransAm received another code 14x7 rally II when rally II wheels were optioned.

Can't help you on the title search deal, privacy laws shut down getting previous owner info in a lot of states. A '67 GTO I owned in the early 90's was up to K after the number on the title. As A was not used in my state for first owner, but for second, the car was on its 12th owner. After getting a title in my name, the letter disappeared! When I was doing a title search on that GTO, numerous previous owners info came back on the photo stated microfish. Unfortunate, very hard to get that type info today.

Documenting 26k miles is tough. One of my parts cars is a documented 4,000 mile original 72 Lux LeMans. the car was a time machine when i bought it, had the lightly faded gummed two letter label on the block, as well as red and white axle code stickers on the rear brake drums. The rear tail light harness had very easy to read original tags on it as well. car was lightly rolled in late '72 and the fellow that bought it was not the body man he thought he could be. I've been hired to travel across the country & look at a few what were represented as low mile original Pontiacs. One was a 33K mile (indicated) '69 RA4 Judge. While all numbers match, other than the starter, I had my doubts, it didn't matter as the car received a frame off cutting edge Concours restoration, went Gold at '98 GTOAA Nats.
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